1 00:00:10,190 --> 00:00:07,130 the planets awesome masters almost 2 00:00:12,890 --> 00:00:10,200 surely have a plan this clearly maybe 3 00:00:15,980 --> 00:00:12,900 something there beyond the realm of man 4 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:15,990 and until thoroughly tested every last 5 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:19,650 goes just you find more you think you 6 00:00:43,290 --> 00:00:36,630 [Music] 7 00:00:47,950 --> 00:00:45,850 here we go higher side Cheddar's another 8 00:00:50,049 --> 00:00:47,960 day another dive into the deep end of 9 00:00:52,410 --> 00:00:50,059 this weird world with an exploration of 10 00:00:54,939 --> 00:00:52,420 elite factions occulted ideologies 11 00:00:56,799 --> 00:00:54,949 geopolitics covert operations and more 12 00:00:58,329 --> 00:00:56,809 in the proverbial Pandora's box that 13 00:01:00,399 --> 00:00:58,339 keeps us trucking along this 14 00:01:01,750 --> 00:01:00,409 conspiratorial path because when a lot 15 00:01:04,030 --> 00:01:01,760 of us get our first glimpse of the 16 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:04,040 hidden hand the tendency is to see an 17 00:01:08,109 --> 00:01:06,170 overarching oligarchy controlling all of 18 00:01:10,690 --> 00:01:08,119 the world like a debilitated marionette 19 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:10,700 but as we go deeper many of us realize 20 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:12,530 the power path splits into so many 21 00:01:16,719 --> 00:01:14,450 divergent directions that the tangled 22 00:01:18,969 --> 00:01:16,729 web of secret societies think-tanks 23 00:01:21,160 --> 00:01:18,979 corporate interests bloodlines networks 24 00:01:23,740 --> 00:01:21,170 and covert operations seems to knotted 25 00:01:25,540 --> 00:01:23,750 up to ever fully untangle but all hope 26 00:01:27,249 --> 00:01:25,550 is not lost ladies and gentlemen because 27 00:01:28,930 --> 00:01:27,259 today's guest has been dedicated to 28 00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:28,940 holding a microscope to each thread 29 00:01:32,559 --> 00:01:30,770 woven into the conspiracy cardigan and 30 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:32,569 has been basking in the warmth and 31 00:01:37,210 --> 00:01:34,610 comfort of his nuanced understanding for 32 00:01:39,550 --> 00:01:37,220 nearly a decade he's a man known as the 33 00:01:42,279 --> 00:01:39,560 reclusive babylon or just recluse to his 34 00:01:43,930 --> 00:01:42,289 friends and his blog vissa pin tracking 35 00:01:45,940 --> 00:01:43,940 his conspiratorial and weird stuff 36 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:45,950 research journey all along the way and 37 00:01:49,930 --> 00:01:48,050 I'm really psyched to get into it here 38 00:01:52,419 --> 00:01:49,940 he is the man who knows the plan blowin 39 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:52,429 more Minds than the US military recluse 40 00:01:56,290 --> 00:01:53,690 my good sir 41 00:01:58,540 --> 00:01:56,300 welcome to the higher side thank you for 42 00:02:00,430 --> 00:01:58,550 having me Greg yeah man you got it I 43 00:02:02,469 --> 00:02:00,440 really appreciate you being here I know 44 00:02:03,999 --> 00:02:02,479 it is a little rare for you to do 45 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:04,009 interviews which makes this all the more 46 00:02:09,369 --> 00:02:06,410 sweeter for me but because this material 47 00:02:11,410 --> 00:02:09,379 can get so complex and many researchers 48 00:02:13,540 --> 00:02:11,420 have many different takes on the 49 00:02:15,640 --> 00:02:13,550 alternative can you tell us a bit about 50 00:02:18,339 --> 00:02:15,650 what got you into these things and break 51 00:02:20,199 --> 00:02:18,349 down your overarching perspective and 52 00:02:24,250 --> 00:02:20,209 worldview when it comes to these sorts 53 00:02:26,350 --> 00:02:24,260 of topics uh well like a lot of people I 54 00:02:28,390 --> 00:02:26,360 probably started to get into the stuff 55 00:02:30,910 --> 00:02:28,400 at least heavily kind of during the bush 56 00:02:32,949 --> 00:02:30,920 two years I was kind of brought up 57 00:02:35,380 --> 00:02:32,959 though in a conspiratorial oriented 58 00:02:37,750 --> 00:02:35,390 family my father who was a green beret 59 00:02:39,940 --> 00:02:37,760 was quite interested in this kind of 60 00:02:42,610 --> 00:02:39,950 stuff I can actually remember listening 61 00:02:45,009 --> 00:02:42,620 to William Cooper with him probably at 62 00:02:46,959 --> 00:02:45,019 some point in the early to mid 90s when 63 00:02:48,530 --> 00:02:46,969 I was only you know maybe 10 12 years 64 00:02:51,500 --> 00:02:48,540 old or something like that 65 00:02:53,420 --> 00:02:51,510 so I've definitely been yay around this 66 00:02:55,220 --> 00:02:53,430 community for quite a while and 67 00:02:56,780 --> 00:02:55,230 certainly I wouldn't have described my 68 00:02:59,240 --> 00:02:56,790 dad as aperture or anything like that 69 00:03:01,160 --> 00:02:59,250 that I would say that he had been around 70 00:03:04,190 --> 00:03:01,170 some of those circles of his day before 71 00:03:06,890 --> 00:03:04,200 so I definitely I have I would say a 72 00:03:09,589 --> 00:03:06,900 pretty decent long-standing view of the 73 00:03:11,089 --> 00:03:09,599 community in the whole and as far as it 74 00:03:14,929 --> 00:03:11,099 goes to my approach I think that 75 00:03:16,309 --> 00:03:14,939 probably started to emerge around 2011 76 00:03:18,770 --> 00:03:16,319 there's from the 12 somewhere there 77 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:18,780 about and it was really spurred when I 78 00:03:25,069 --> 00:03:22,170 first started to look into the Oklahoma 79 00:03:27,259 --> 00:03:25,079 City bombing and as a result of that 80 00:03:28,940 --> 00:03:27,269 kind of looking into a lot of the you 81 00:03:31,369 --> 00:03:28,950 know white supremists in the UH Nazi 82 00:03:33,289 --> 00:03:31,379 groups that Timothy McVeigh had been 83 00:03:35,750 --> 00:03:33,299 associated with and that really kind of 84 00:03:37,250 --> 00:03:35,760 opened up a whole new universe of groups 85 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:37,260 and what-have-you that you just don't 86 00:03:43,429 --> 00:03:40,650 see a lot of conventional conspiracy 87 00:03:45,020 --> 00:03:43,439 researchers delve into and from there I 88 00:03:46,940 --> 00:03:45,030 learned about organizations like the 89 00:03:50,330 --> 00:03:46,950 American Security Council in the world 90 00:03:52,849 --> 00:03:50,340 anti-communist League and that spurred 91 00:03:54,619 --> 00:03:52,859 me to look into some very you know 92 00:03:57,699 --> 00:03:54,629 arcane topics that are very rarely 93 00:04:02,449 --> 00:03:57,709 addressed even and conspiracy circles 94 00:04:04,099 --> 00:04:02,459 mm-hmm Amen man yes that is exactly kind 95 00:04:06,170 --> 00:04:04,109 of what I wanted to get into is how 96 00:04:08,539 --> 00:04:06,180 those elements are kind of left out of 97 00:04:10,969 --> 00:04:08,549 conspiracy circles and to quote your 98 00:04:13,969 --> 00:04:10,979 blog I think this does a great job of 99 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:13,979 summing up the journey you say many that 100 00:04:17,750 --> 00:04:15,690 have asked these questions have been led 101 00:04:20,149 --> 00:04:17,760 down a path that will progressively defy 102 00:04:21,830 --> 00:04:20,159 belief first they learn of international 103 00:04:23,719 --> 00:04:21,840 organizations such as the Council on 104 00:04:25,430 --> 00:04:23,729 Foreign Relations the Royal Institute 105 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:25,440 the Bilderberg Group the trilateral 106 00:04:30,890 --> 00:04:27,570 commission and similar think tanks along 107 00:04:33,140 --> 00:04:30,900 the lines of the Royal Society MIT s RI 108 00:04:35,870 --> 00:04:33,150 and the JSON group and it is here that 109 00:04:37,730 --> 00:04:35,880 many rational people hit a wall for the 110 00:04:39,770 --> 00:04:37,740 organizations that stand behind these 111 00:04:41,899 --> 00:04:39,780 groups are generally to ISA Tareq for 112 00:04:43,399 --> 00:04:41,909 the layman to accept for it is here that 113 00:04:46,159 --> 00:04:43,409 we descend into the realms of 114 00:04:48,469 --> 00:04:46,169 illumination of masonry and the so 115 00:04:50,719 --> 00:04:48,479 called Society of Jesus of legendary 116 00:04:53,749 --> 00:04:50,729 knight and assassin Brotherhood where 117 00:04:55,820 --> 00:04:53,759 the line between Kabul ISM and Nazism is 118 00:04:57,680 --> 00:04:55,830 forever blurred and it is here we 119 00:05:00,440 --> 00:04:57,690 discover the occult in other words and 120 00:05:02,390 --> 00:05:00,450 that is a great set up man but the 121 00:05:05,030 --> 00:05:02,400 phrase were the line 122 00:05:07,490 --> 00:05:05,040 between Kabul ISM and Nazism is forever 123 00:05:08,990 --> 00:05:07,500 blurred that is so key because I'm 124 00:05:11,090 --> 00:05:09,000 trying to balance the show where we talk 125 00:05:12,710 --> 00:05:11,100 about pockets of power equally and if we 126 00:05:15,230 --> 00:05:12,720 talk about the Germans that I get yelled 127 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:15,240 at for ignoring the Jewish elite and the 128 00:05:19,790 --> 00:05:17,370 more I look the less I can really 129 00:05:21,980 --> 00:05:19,800 separate those quote-unquote teams I 130 00:05:23,840 --> 00:05:21,990 mean the lines are blurred but I guess 131 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:23,850 can you give us any kind of clarity here 132 00:05:29,930 --> 00:05:26,490 what are your thoughts on that specific 133 00:05:32,210 --> 00:05:29,940 line between Kabul ISM and Nazism well 134 00:05:34,070 --> 00:05:32,220 obviously yeah I mean there's a lot of 135 00:05:35,570 --> 00:05:34,080 overlapping interests between these 136 00:05:37,730 --> 00:05:35,580 groups and what have you I mean I'm sure 137 00:05:38,870 --> 00:05:37,740 when you're you know at that level of 138 00:05:41,450 --> 00:05:38,880 kind of the power brokers and 139 00:05:42,860 --> 00:05:41,460 what-have-you you're almost inedibly 140 00:05:44,450 --> 00:05:42,870 there's only going to be certain 141 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:44,460 interests and so forth the people that 142 00:05:47,930 --> 00:05:45,930 kind of power would even want to pursue 143 00:05:50,090 --> 00:05:47,940 so I think a lot of times it breaks into 144 00:05:52,310 --> 00:05:50,100 sort of different visions of how things 145 00:05:54,980 --> 00:05:52,320 should manifest that there are disputes 146 00:05:56,300 --> 00:05:54,990 among the elite breaking here I'm trying 147 00:05:58,670 --> 00:05:56,310 to remember actually I think it's been a 148 00:06:00,110 --> 00:05:58,680 while since I even wrote that so I'm 149 00:06:02,710 --> 00:06:00,120 trying to remember now pretty feel like 150 00:06:05,990 --> 00:06:02,720 what I was going with this with um oh 151 00:06:08,750 --> 00:06:06,000 gosh yeah I'm actually controlling a 152 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:08,760 blank on that one right now sorry no 153 00:06:12,740 --> 00:06:11,010 worries man it is complex stuff and we 154 00:06:14,690 --> 00:06:12,750 are just still trying to get warmed up 155 00:06:16,909 --> 00:06:14,700 here but I do think you nailed it when 156 00:06:19,010 --> 00:06:16,919 you talked about that particular line I 157 00:06:20,629 --> 00:06:19,020 think at a certain level that is the 158 00:06:23,060 --> 00:06:20,639 division and you do have guys like 159 00:06:25,370 --> 00:06:23,070 Joseph Ferrell talking about a fascist 160 00:06:27,230 --> 00:06:25,380 faction I know your guy Chris Knowles 161 00:06:29,810 --> 00:06:27,240 also talked about this aspect to get 162 00:06:31,610 --> 00:06:29,820 them out oh yeah yeah Jim Marrs would 163 00:06:33,710 --> 00:06:31,620 obviously be a big one too 164 00:06:35,510 --> 00:06:33,720 really I think Farrell and bars have 165 00:06:38,150 --> 00:06:35,520 probably been the two researchers that 166 00:06:41,500 --> 00:06:38,160 have really shaped a lot of the you know 167 00:06:43,909 --> 00:06:41,510 occult not the sort of perspective and 168 00:06:48,350 --> 00:06:43,919 definitely researched I would say I have 169 00:06:50,629 --> 00:06:48,360 some with fair so well I think in case 170 00:06:52,490 --> 00:06:50,639 of Jim Marrs who's of one I'm somewhat 171 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:52,500 familiar with I mean I definitely think 172 00:06:58,159 --> 00:06:55,610 he tends to go a little too far into the 173 00:07:00,740 --> 00:06:58,169 Council on Foreign Relations overlord 174 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:00,750 perspective if you will I mean the CFR 175 00:07:05,240 --> 00:07:02,970 obviously has a lot of power no doubt 176 00:07:07,129 --> 00:07:05,250 that uh it's not the only game in town 177 00:07:09,529 --> 00:07:07,139 and I tend to think in general it's been 178 00:07:11,990 --> 00:07:09,539 misrepresented by a lot of researchers 179 00:07:13,790 --> 00:07:12,000 as to what its initial objectives were 180 00:07:14,700 --> 00:07:13,800 and you know how its kind of developed 181 00:07:17,070 --> 00:07:14,710 over the years 182 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:17,080 obviously you know kind of emerged out 183 00:07:20,100 --> 00:07:18,490 of the round table groups which had 184 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:20,110 their origins towards the end of the 185 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:21,850 late nineteenth early twentieth century 186 00:07:27,540 --> 00:07:24,970 and they in turn actually seem to have 187 00:07:30,570 --> 00:07:27,550 been associated with even more exclusive 188 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:30,580 sect known as the pilgrim society which 189 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:33,970 you very very rarely hear addressed I've 190 00:07:37,830 --> 00:07:36,130 even heard Alex Jones for instance who's 191 00:07:39,900 --> 00:07:37,840 obsessed with this kind of research has 192 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:39,910 deliberately censored references to the 193 00:07:45,930 --> 00:07:43,690 pilgrim society but anywho in essence 194 00:07:47,730 --> 00:07:45,940 the round table groups and the 195 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:47,740 Institute's that emerge from it such as 196 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:49,570 the CFR in the world inclusion of 197 00:07:53,370 --> 00:07:50,410 what-have-you 198 00:07:54,950 --> 00:07:53,380 were primarily concerned with expanding 199 00:07:57,930 --> 00:07:54,960 the influence of the British Empire 200 00:07:59,820 --> 00:07:57,940 principally by reuniting the British 201 00:08:02,010 --> 00:07:59,830 Empire in the United States into some 202 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:02,020 kind of you know political structure 203 00:08:06,629 --> 00:08:04,210 along with a lot of the other crowned 204 00:08:08,939 --> 00:08:06,639 colonies such as Australia and New 205 00:08:13,020 --> 00:08:08,949 Zealand in South Africa and so forth and 206 00:08:15,659 --> 00:08:13,030 that was really the primary focus they 207 00:08:16,469 --> 00:08:15,669 had on internationalism and globalism if 208 00:08:19,350 --> 00:08:16,479 you will 209 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:19,360 leading up to the Second World War it 210 00:08:23,939 --> 00:08:21,250 really wasn't until after the second 211 00:08:25,529 --> 00:08:23,949 world war that the lead faction that are 212 00:08:29,339 --> 00:08:25,539 generally referred to as globalist 213 00:08:31,909 --> 00:08:29,349 genuinely became globalists so even 214 00:08:35,219 --> 00:08:31,919 despite that there was a long-standing 215 00:08:38,130 --> 00:08:35,229 strong scent of Anglophilia within the 216 00:08:41,670 --> 00:08:38,140 Council on Foreign Relations SiC and I 217 00:08:43,350 --> 00:08:41,680 suspected this day there's still an 218 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:43,360 agenda that's focused around the British 219 00:08:47,130 --> 00:08:44,650 Empire and that's something would you 220 00:08:49,290 --> 00:08:47,140 kind of look into a lot of the 221 00:08:51,210 --> 00:08:49,300 roundtable affiliates from Britain 222 00:08:53,699 --> 00:08:51,220 itself a lot of these people actually 223 00:08:56,569 --> 00:08:53,709 became very opposed to the European 224 00:08:58,949 --> 00:08:56,579 Union beginning in the 60s and 70s and 225 00:09:00,720 --> 00:08:58,959 ironically a lot of them are usually 226 00:09:03,180 --> 00:09:00,730 considered to be staunch nationalists 227 00:09:05,310 --> 00:09:03,190 now in the United Kingdom's 228 00:09:06,780 --> 00:09:05,320 whereas obviously that's very different 229 00:09:08,819 --> 00:09:06,790 from how the sort of round table groups 230 00:09:10,980 --> 00:09:08,829 are perceived in the United States I 231 00:09:12,329 --> 00:09:10,990 think I may be lost when the point you 232 00:09:14,610 --> 00:09:12,339 were talking about there for a minute 233 00:09:16,740 --> 00:09:14,620 nah man I really love it I find this 234 00:09:18,150 --> 00:09:16,750 also interesting and I guess the 235 00:09:20,010 --> 00:09:18,160 simplification a lot of people are 236 00:09:22,319 --> 00:09:20,020 putting on is that we have this Zionist 237 00:09:25,530 --> 00:09:22,329 globalists One World Order Jewish 238 00:09:28,230 --> 00:09:25,540 faction and this other fascist Nazi 239 00:09:28,620 --> 00:09:28,240 nationalist side and I guess I'm just 240 00:09:31,350 --> 00:09:28,630 wondering 241 00:09:33,420 --> 00:09:31,360 mean if these two are really divided or 242 00:09:35,130 --> 00:09:33,430 if they're just played off each other 243 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:35,140 from a higher level if it's more of a 244 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:37,450 two puppets one-hand situation and just 245 00:09:44,370 --> 00:09:42,130 a divisive polarizing dichotomy to get 246 00:09:46,890 --> 00:09:44,380 people trapped is that kind of how you 247 00:09:50,100 --> 00:09:46,900 see it that maybe that separation tends 248 00:09:52,980 --> 00:09:50,110 to dissolve when you get to the higher 249 00:09:55,350 --> 00:09:52,990 levels yes I mean certainly and I mean 250 00:09:57,330 --> 00:09:55,360 there's a lot of you see a lot of these 251 00:09:59,880 --> 00:09:57,340 you know affiliations that are very 252 00:10:03,090 --> 00:09:59,890 strange and especially with the zionist 253 00:10:05,430 --> 00:10:03,100 faction certainly because typically most 254 00:10:07,470 --> 00:10:05,440 researchers tend to affiliate them with 255 00:10:08,910 --> 00:10:07,480 you know the kind of anglo-american the 256 00:10:11,700 --> 00:10:08,920 lead and of course this whole sea of our 257 00:10:14,430 --> 00:10:11,710 network we were talking about but again 258 00:10:16,770 --> 00:10:14,440 I would say that the CFR was very 259 00:10:18,750 --> 00:10:16,780 reluctant and embracing Israel in the 260 00:10:20,580 --> 00:10:18,760 first place a lot of it seems to have 261 00:10:22,980 --> 00:10:20,590 been driven by the American partners 262 00:10:24,810 --> 00:10:22,990 there's a lot of interesting theories as 263 00:10:27,890 --> 00:10:24,820 to why the American partners opted to 264 00:10:31,620 --> 00:10:27,900 pack Israel but regardless they did and 265 00:10:33,990 --> 00:10:31,630 the European partners seem to have very 266 00:10:36,150 --> 00:10:34,000 early become disillusioned with this and 267 00:10:38,610 --> 00:10:36,160 nowadays especially in the you know more 268 00:10:40,860 --> 00:10:38,620 modern era I mean a lot of the most 269 00:10:43,380 --> 00:10:40,870 vocal opponents of Israel tend to come 270 00:10:45,570 --> 00:10:43,390 from the EU and that tended to create 271 00:10:48,270 --> 00:10:45,580 this sort of bizarre situation where 272 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:48,280 increasingly Israel made common cause 273 00:10:52,230 --> 00:10:51,130 with the far-right especially you know 274 00:10:53,850 --> 00:10:52,240 organizations like the world 275 00:10:57,120 --> 00:10:53,860 anti-communist League which you know 276 00:11:00,000 --> 00:10:57,130 were littered with many former Nazis 277 00:11:02,490 --> 00:11:00,010 quote-unquote and you know obviously 278 00:11:05,540 --> 00:11:02,500 this is a very strange situation but the 279 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:05,550 flip side of the coin Israel was sort of 280 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:07,930 it was a lot of ways it was a natural 281 00:11:12,630 --> 00:11:09,970 alliance for Israel because the WACA 282 00:11:16,260 --> 00:11:12,640 also brought together South Africa and 283 00:11:19,020 --> 00:11:16,270 Taiwan two nations who much like Israel 284 00:11:21,030 --> 00:11:19,030 were essentially apartheid nations so 285 00:11:23,310 --> 00:11:21,040 there were these mutual interests there 286 00:11:27,390 --> 00:11:23,320 with some of these other affiliates in 287 00:11:28,860 --> 00:11:27,400 this group and yeah I mean so it kind of 288 00:11:30,990 --> 00:11:28,870 begs the question are they united in 289 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:31,000 some sort of unified fronts maybe in 290 00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:32,890 some levels the different factions that 291 00:11:37,350 --> 00:11:35,200 there definitely seems to be a situation 292 00:11:39,210 --> 00:11:37,360 where in the case of kind of the 293 00:11:41,430 --> 00:11:39,220 European believe there is a perspective 294 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:41,440 that Israel has really become an 295 00:11:44,910 --> 00:11:42,130 embarrassed 296 00:11:47,700 --> 00:11:44,920 and a major detriment to the greater 297 00:11:49,560 --> 00:11:47,710 global project which you know is rather 298 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:49,570 obvious when you look at the anger that 299 00:11:55,350 --> 00:11:51,610 Israel's existence causes amongst the 300 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:55,360 Islamic world so yes you have this kind 301 00:11:58,860 --> 00:11:57,010 of bizarre situation where increasingly 302 00:12:01,170 --> 00:11:58,870 the Jews have had to align more and more 303 00:12:03,270 --> 00:12:01,180 with Nazis because they're you know 304 00:12:04,740 --> 00:12:03,280 historic allies and the banking sector 305 00:12:08,730 --> 00:12:04,750 now consider them to be a kind of 306 00:12:10,830 --> 00:12:08,740 economic liability but again is this the 307 00:12:13,230 --> 00:12:10,840 actual situation or is that an elaborate 308 00:12:15,690 --> 00:12:13,240 ruse that's kind of the question and I 309 00:12:17,190 --> 00:12:15,700 don't know pretend to really know this I 310 00:12:18,840 --> 00:12:17,200 don't think anybody really knows that 311 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:18,850 and we couldn't probably know that 312 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:20,170 unless we're you know then the 313 00:12:25,860 --> 00:12:21,970 boardrooms of power and what-have-you 314 00:12:27,900 --> 00:12:25,870 mm-hmm obviously it's a very very murky 315 00:12:30,180 --> 00:12:27,910 situation that's probably not as 316 00:12:33,450 --> 00:12:30,190 clear-cut I think as a lot of conspiracy 317 00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:33,460 researchers like to get into right 318 00:12:37,610 --> 00:12:35,200 and that I do agree with you on is 319 00:12:40,410 --> 00:12:37,620 there's a lot of nuances that get 320 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:40,420 overlooked with the singular narratives 321 00:12:44,970 --> 00:12:42,970 and I try to avoid that as much as I can 322 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:44,980 but the same time you try to seek some 323 00:12:48,060 --> 00:12:46,810 kind of clarity and that kind of makes 324 00:12:51,060 --> 00:12:48,070 those singular narratives more 325 00:12:53,550 --> 00:12:51,070 attractive but one series you have that 326 00:12:55,770 --> 00:12:53,560 I really love is a nine part and 327 00:12:57,960 --> 00:12:55,780 counting one that you have called fringe 328 00:13:00,000 --> 00:12:57,970 the strange and terrible history of the 329 00:13:02,100 --> 00:13:00,010 far-right and high weirdness because as 330 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:02,110 I've been talking to guys like Chris 331 00:13:05,250 --> 00:13:03,610 Knowles and Gordon white and Joseph 332 00:13:07,620 --> 00:13:05,260 Ferrell I have really started to notice 333 00:13:09,270 --> 00:13:07,630 this nexus of far-right fascist and how 334 00:13:12,530 --> 00:13:09,280 intertwined they are with the majority 335 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:12,540 of UFO stories and ET whistleblowers 336 00:13:16,850 --> 00:13:14,890 MKULTRA and artichoke and these deep 337 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:16,860 state torture and abuse projects 338 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:19,810 corporations like IG Farben and Merck 339 00:13:24,150 --> 00:13:22,090 eugenics campaigns in this crossroads 340 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:24,160 between the occult and cutting edge 341 00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:26,650 technology and this fascist side of the 342 00:13:30,420 --> 00:13:28,510 coin seems to be stepping further out 343 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:30,430 from behind the curtain these days but 344 00:13:34,140 --> 00:13:32,290 what can you tell us about this curious 345 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:34,150 connection between the far right and 346 00:13:38,430 --> 00:13:36,010 what we could broadly call high 347 00:13:41,130 --> 00:13:38,440 weirdness or occult magic I mean how far 348 00:13:43,260 --> 00:13:41,140 back can you take this well I mean it 349 00:13:45,990 --> 00:13:43,270 definitely seems to going back to at 350 00:13:47,730 --> 00:13:46,000 least the post war era when you had you 351 00:13:49,830 --> 00:13:47,740 know a lot of the UFO counters the first 352 00:13:52,470 --> 00:13:49,840 wave of modern UFO encounters I should 353 00:13:54,810 --> 00:13:52,480 say the broke out in that period and in 354 00:13:56,730 --> 00:13:54,820 the case of Roswell which is one of the 355 00:13:59,450 --> 00:13:56,740 obviously the major incidences of this 356 00:14:02,070 --> 00:13:59,460 kind of mythos a lot of the generals 357 00:14:04,410 --> 00:14:02,080 associated with Roswell in the material 358 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:04,420 would later end up being connected to 359 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:06,370 the American Security Council which was 360 00:14:12,000 --> 00:14:09,610 for many years the kind of pinnacle 361 00:14:13,980 --> 00:14:12,010 outpost of the far right in the United 362 00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:13,990 States and it was also a vast 363 00:14:19,530 --> 00:14:16,570 intelligence network as well originally 364 00:14:22,500 --> 00:14:19,540 it was designed to basically engage in 365 00:14:24,780 --> 00:14:22,510 blacklisting it kept thousands probably 366 00:14:27,210 --> 00:14:24,790 tens of thousands of records on American 367 00:14:29,670 --> 00:14:27,220 workers and their political views and 368 00:14:31,260 --> 00:14:29,680 what-have-you and then later on it 369 00:14:32,970 --> 00:14:31,270 became involved in just a host of 370 00:14:34,860 --> 00:14:32,980 incredible things drug trafficking 371 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:34,870 supporting a lot of contours of Michigan 372 00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:37,930 in Afghanistan well anyway with the ASC 373 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:40,330 they originally kind of became an 374 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:42,130 intelligence organization in the early 375 00:14:47,220 --> 00:14:45,610 years to focus on blacklisting basically 376 00:14:48,960 --> 00:14:47,230 chronicling the political beliefs of 377 00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:48,970 American workers and what-have-yous of 378 00:14:52,260 --> 00:14:50,290 the corporations could essentially 379 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:52,270 discriminate against individuals of 380 00:14:57,570 --> 00:14:54,970 liberal persuasion and then from there 381 00:15:00,090 --> 00:14:57,580 that had got into a host of major deep 382 00:15:02,550 --> 00:15:00,100 state activities they've been linked to 383 00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:02,560 drug trafficking and arms trafficking a 384 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:04,330 lot of international terrorism 385 00:15:08,550 --> 00:15:06,250 especially in the 80s with contra 386 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:08,560 networks and regime in Afghanistan and 387 00:15:12,690 --> 00:15:11,410 what happened to do but from the very 388 00:15:15,660 --> 00:15:12,700 beginning there were just a lot 389 00:15:19,050 --> 00:15:15,670 individuals in this you know network 390 00:15:21,060 --> 00:15:19,060 that had these keen interest in doing 391 00:15:23,460 --> 00:15:21,070 those and other kinds of arcane topics a 392 00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:23,470 lot of the generals had been involved in 393 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:26,530 Roswell all this would include Nathan xx 394 00:15:30,770 --> 00:15:27,970 who was considered author who's also 395 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:30,780 widely listed as a majestic 12 number 396 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:34,330 Curtis LeMay bombs away LeMay who was 397 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:36,490 probably kubert's inspiration for the 398 00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:39,130 character of a general Jackie Ripper in 399 00:15:44,090 --> 00:15:42,880 dr. Strangelove LeMay was pretty crazy 400 00:15:46,380 --> 00:15:44,100 to put it mildly 401 00:15:48,060 --> 00:15:46,390 Thomas Powers I mean some of these other 402 00:15:49,650 --> 00:15:48,070 generals in there and then you had some 403 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:49,660 other curious figures that became 404 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:51,610 involved with the ASCE early in the game 405 00:15:57,750 --> 00:15:54,490 like Stefan pausing I believe that's how 406 00:15:59,670 --> 00:15:57,760 the name is pronounced it could very 407 00:16:02,340 --> 00:15:59,680 well be butchering at those I'm very 408 00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:02,350 back to pronunciations but I'm posny 409 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:03,970 originally had promoted a lot of 410 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:06,250 nationalist movements in first Austria 411 00:16:09,430 --> 00:16:07,730 and then later a few other 412 00:16:12,340 --> 00:16:09,440 European countries before the Nazis 413 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:12,350 drove into the United States he was an 414 00:16:17,170 --> 00:16:14,570 absolutely navigable proponent of 415 00:16:19,329 --> 00:16:17,180 eugenics and had tried to incorporate 416 00:16:21,460 --> 00:16:19,339 something into the US air force after he 417 00:16:22,860 --> 00:16:21,470 ended up here during the war he worked 418 00:16:26,050 --> 00:16:22,870 with the Office of Naval Intelligence 419 00:16:29,139 --> 00:16:26,060 shortly afterwards the war had ended he 420 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:29,149 became involved in a highly positive UFO 421 00:16:35,350 --> 00:16:32,810 study group in the early 1950s that was 422 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:35,360 not affiliated with Bluebook this was an 423 00:16:40,540 --> 00:16:38,810 even more secretive Air Force group I 424 00:16:42,370 --> 00:16:40,550 think it was simply known as something 425 00:16:45,910 --> 00:16:42,380 like the UFO study group or something to 426 00:16:47,740 --> 00:16:45,920 that effect but after you joined the ASC 427 00:16:50,829 --> 00:16:47,750 posny would also hook up with Edward 428 00:16:53,590 --> 00:16:50,839 Teller who you know also I mean goes up 429 00:16:55,900 --> 00:16:53,600 a lot in the UFO literature posny would 430 00:16:58,090 --> 00:16:55,910 come on to become a major proponent of 431 00:17:01,810 --> 00:16:58,100 what will become the Strategic Defense 432 00:17:04,630 --> 00:17:01,820 Initiative Star Wars he would display a 433 00:17:07,240 --> 00:17:04,640 lot of interest in particle beam-weapons 434 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:07,250 and kinetic energy and things that are 435 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:09,650 typically associated with Tesla weapons 436 00:17:16,090 --> 00:17:12,970 another figure within dozen das the 437 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:16,100 National Security Council by the 1980s 438 00:17:21,460 --> 00:17:19,610 reputedly was Colonel Michael Quinto who 439 00:17:23,140 --> 00:17:21,470 I'm sure a lot of your readers don't 440 00:17:24,819 --> 00:17:23,150 need much introduction to he was of 441 00:17:28,449 --> 00:17:24,829 course the infamous founder of the 442 00:17:30,789 --> 00:17:28,459 temple of said so you know going back to 443 00:17:33,430 --> 00:17:30,799 at least the foundation of the ASC in 444 00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:33,440 the 1950s and kind of his proto groups 445 00:17:37,750 --> 00:17:35,360 like that just the knie on the present 446 00:17:39,430 --> 00:17:37,760 danger Mach one which featured been over 447 00:17:41,799 --> 00:17:39,440 bullish and a lot of the other kind of 448 00:17:44,500 --> 00:17:41,809 architects of the American 449 00:17:47,620 --> 00:17:44,510 military-industrial complex these ties 450 00:17:49,590 --> 00:17:47,630 kind of began I think a lot of it might 451 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:49,600 have gone back to Roswell 452 00:17:55,270 --> 00:17:53,450 Roswell of course there's a lot of 453 00:17:57,220 --> 00:17:55,280 interesting theories going on into what 454 00:17:58,510 --> 00:17:57,230 actually happened in Roswell I think one 455 00:18:01,810 --> 00:17:58,520 of the most compelling put forth by 456 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:01,820 Christopher Nolan and his lucifer's 457 00:18:06,130 --> 00:18:03,650 technology series which he kind of 458 00:18:08,649 --> 00:18:06,140 dubbed it the Roswell working there may 459 00:18:13,330 --> 00:18:08,659 well have been some kind of 460 00:18:15,860 --> 00:18:13,340 magical aspect of the Roswell incident 461 00:18:16,940 --> 00:18:15,870 certainly the possibility would exist 462 00:18:18,380 --> 00:18:16,950 when you look at some of the other 463 00:18:20,659 --> 00:18:18,390 things that were going on at the same 464 00:18:22,789 --> 00:18:20,669 time and interestingly the Intelligence 465 00:18:24,310 --> 00:18:22,799 Agency that's most associated with the 466 00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:24,320 Roswell incident was the 467 00:18:29,990 --> 00:18:27,090 counterintelligence corps the US Army 468 00:18:31,909 --> 00:18:30,000 the CIC shortly after the Roswell 469 00:18:34,970 --> 00:18:31,919 incident would become involved in CIA's 470 00:18:37,009 --> 00:18:34,980 artichoke project they had also been 471 00:18:38,750 --> 00:18:37,019 engaged in their own quote/unquote 472 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:38,760 enhanced interrogation methods priors 473 00:18:43,879 --> 00:18:41,970 artichoke being launched with the group 474 00:18:45,710 --> 00:18:43,889 that they had called the rough boys that 475 00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:45,720 specialized in special interrogations 476 00:18:50,779 --> 00:18:48,480 there was another individual named Lee 477 00:18:52,490 --> 00:18:50,789 Baxter who was also considered to be 478 00:18:54,320 --> 00:18:52,500 something of an architect of 479 00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:54,330 narco-hypnosis and that type of thing to 480 00:18:59,180 --> 00:18:57,690 work with the CIC and the CIC was also 481 00:19:00,080 --> 00:18:59,190 involved with the ratlines and 482 00:19:04,070 --> 00:19:00,090 what-have-you 483 00:19:06,470 --> 00:19:04,080 so the CIC definitely seems to have been 484 00:19:09,830 --> 00:19:06,480 involved with a lot of arcane research 485 00:19:11,840 --> 00:19:09,840 and the years following the Second World 486 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:11,850 War and at the time when Roswell 487 00:19:17,659 --> 00:19:14,730 unfolded the CIA the CIA that exists 488 00:19:19,490 --> 00:19:17,669 today not exist at the time there was a 489 00:19:21,740 --> 00:19:19,500 Central Intelligence Group but it was a 490 00:19:23,240 --> 00:19:21,750 pretty marginal institution the 491 00:19:24,860 --> 00:19:23,250 counterintelligence corps was one of the 492 00:19:27,379 --> 00:19:24,870 most powerful intelligence agencies 493 00:19:28,490 --> 00:19:27,389 we've really had at the time and they 494 00:19:31,789 --> 00:19:28,500 would have certainly been a repository 495 00:19:34,610 --> 00:19:31,799 of a lot of strange and information at 496 00:19:36,769 --> 00:19:34,620 this era so you have kind of this 497 00:19:38,389 --> 00:19:36,779 process where a lot of these CSE men 498 00:19:41,259 --> 00:19:38,399 were involved in Roswell and then later 499 00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:41,269 on you have the CIC men appearing and 500 00:19:47,659 --> 00:19:45,210 conjunction with artichoke artichoke had 501 00:19:49,490 --> 00:19:47,669 a lot of ties to the far right of the 502 00:19:52,039 --> 00:19:49,500 kind of man who ultimately oversaw 503 00:19:54,379 --> 00:19:52,049 project artichoke was General Paul 504 00:19:57,379 --> 00:19:54,389 Gaynor who managed the project out of 505 00:20:01,490 --> 00:19:57,389 the office of security security research 506 00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:01,500 staff Gaynor was an absolutely fanatical 507 00:20:05,769 --> 00:20:03,570 right-wing extremist he maintained what 508 00:20:09,139 --> 00:20:05,779 was known as the bag file in the CIA 509 00:20:11,389 --> 00:20:09,149 which essentially chronicled known 510 00:20:13,700 --> 00:20:11,399 homosexuals and the government at the 511 00:20:15,980 --> 00:20:13,710 time there are a lot of theories that he 512 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:15,990 actually pushed several individuals 513 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:18,210 toward suicide by threatening to expose 514 00:20:22,370 --> 00:20:20,970 their homosexuality Gaynor actually 515 00:20:24,590 --> 00:20:22,380 specialized in general 516 00:20:27,529 --> 00:20:24,600 in sexual blackmail and entrapment and 517 00:20:29,180 --> 00:20:27,539 he had appointed Morris Allen to oversee 518 00:20:31,070 --> 00:20:29,190 what was initially known his Bluebird 519 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:31,080 and then later artichoke and Morris 520 00:20:36,590 --> 00:20:32,850 Allen was another guy who had a lot of 521 00:20:38,450 --> 00:20:36,600 ties to the far right as well so you 522 00:20:40,430 --> 00:20:38,460 kind of have this sort of Nexus where 523 00:20:42,760 --> 00:20:40,440 you know you had the Roswell incident 524 00:20:45,350 --> 00:20:42,770 the Marine Island incident these 525 00:20:47,870 --> 00:20:45,360 behavior modification experiments that 526 00:20:51,020 --> 00:20:47,880 the military in the CIA were kind of 527 00:20:53,029 --> 00:20:51,030 engaged in during the late 40s and it's 528 00:20:55,789 --> 00:20:53,039 kind of spilled over into this network 529 00:20:58,730 --> 00:20:55,799 of right-wing military officers and CIA 530 00:21:00,890 --> 00:20:58,740 officers who would later end up in these 531 00:21:02,390 --> 00:21:00,900 you know private organizations like the 532 00:21:03,740 --> 00:21:02,400 American Security Council in the world 533 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:03,750 and communist League that would 534 00:21:09,409 --> 00:21:06,570 effectively be used to run intelligence 535 00:21:12,950 --> 00:21:09,419 operations to Berkeley so does that 536 00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:12,960 answer your question yeah man the rabbit 537 00:21:16,610 --> 00:21:14,640 hole goes deep obviously we're just 538 00:21:19,970 --> 00:21:16,620 scratching the surface and it's already 539 00:21:22,010 --> 00:21:19,980 super complex but well you said to me 540 00:21:25,210 --> 00:21:22,020 that a lot of this occult thinking and 541 00:21:28,159 --> 00:21:25,220 influence comes from Julius Ebola right 542 00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:28,169 yes yes yes well I mean he seems to have 543 00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:30,480 been one of the strands of occult 544 00:21:34,940 --> 00:21:33,360 thought that I sort of been churning 545 00:21:37,430 --> 00:21:34,950 through the bar right now for at least 546 00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:37,440 half a century or so from what I can 547 00:21:41,810 --> 00:21:39,330 tell there were essentially three 548 00:21:44,419 --> 00:21:41,820 different branches of occultism that the 549 00:21:47,510 --> 00:21:44,429 Thar right has really embraced over the 550 00:21:50,539 --> 00:21:47,520 years if I would certainly be one of 551 00:21:53,120 --> 00:21:50,549 them another strain would be kind of the 552 00:21:54,799 --> 00:21:53,130 sin argus slash the bark nests and 553 00:21:58,700 --> 00:21:54,809 what-have-you and then finally you would 554 00:22:01,220 --> 00:21:58,710 have the Satanists and kind of use that 555 00:22:05,240 --> 00:22:01,230 phrase loosely because Satanism is such 556 00:22:07,039 --> 00:22:05,250 a it's used so widely now for so many 557 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:07,049 different phenomena it's almost a 558 00:22:10,070 --> 00:22:08,250 meaningless word but then when I'm 559 00:22:12,740 --> 00:22:10,080 saying Satanism here I mean in the kind 560 00:22:15,169 --> 00:22:12,750 of historical since the Satanism that 561 00:22:17,060 --> 00:22:15,179 emerged out of the Middle Ages and seems 562 00:22:20,029 --> 00:22:17,070 to have been closely affiliated with the 563 00:22:22,700 --> 00:22:20,039 Vatican throughout its history so do you 564 00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:22,710 put lavake in the theosophy society in 565 00:22:28,279 --> 00:22:26,010 any of those categories uh not exactly I 566 00:22:31,190 --> 00:22:28,289 mean belowski in theosophy society would 567 00:22:32,750 --> 00:22:31,200 sort of be a kind of proto influence to 568 00:22:34,850 --> 00:22:32,760 a lot of these strains obviously 569 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:34,860 philosophy had a very strong influence 570 00:22:39,140 --> 00:22:36,090 on Martin ISM and 571 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:39,150 in arcade I don't know how much lavake 572 00:22:41,870 --> 00:22:40,770 would have directly I mean well 573 00:22:43,519 --> 00:22:41,880 obviously she would have had a certain 574 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:43,529 degree of direct influence because the 575 00:22:48,919 --> 00:22:45,330 Asif II was very popular in the early 576 00:22:51,049 --> 00:22:48,929 20th century but I do think that a lot 577 00:22:53,510 --> 00:22:51,059 of theosophy was kind of distorted by 578 00:22:56,029 --> 00:22:53,520 the right as they kind of got into the 579 00:22:58,720 --> 00:22:56,039 occult seeing more and more but I would 580 00:23:01,279 --> 00:22:58,730 kind of consider theosophy to be 581 00:23:03,169 --> 00:23:01,289 somewhat distinct I mean it's obviously 582 00:23:05,630 --> 00:23:03,179 an ideology that spawned a lot of 583 00:23:08,269 --> 00:23:05,640 difference of belief systems since it's 584 00:23:09,740 --> 00:23:08,279 our to emerge in the late 19th centuries 585 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:09,750 I don't know that it would entirely 586 00:23:15,370 --> 00:23:11,970 thereit's lump all theosophy and kind of 587 00:23:20,060 --> 00:23:15,380 a fascist section of a cult phenomenon 588 00:23:22,130 --> 00:23:20,070 certainly well the focus on Julia Savola 589 00:23:23,779 --> 00:23:22,140 from what you said to me it seems like 590 00:23:26,360 --> 00:23:23,789 you think that you have a theory that 591 00:23:28,580 --> 00:23:26,370 Ebola is where Landon got the concept of 592 00:23:31,700 --> 00:23:28,590 the Black Sun that appeared in his Dule 593 00:23:34,430 --> 00:23:31,710 novels and that of course is a major 594 00:23:35,810 --> 00:23:34,440 chunk of influence but that's a source 595 00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:35,820 that I don't think a lot of people would 596 00:23:40,850 --> 00:23:38,370 be familiar with but yeah yeah yeah we 597 00:23:43,010 --> 00:23:40,860 see ev Allah was great admirer of the 598 00:23:45,110 --> 00:23:43,020 effort of the SS throughout the war 599 00:23:47,750 --> 00:23:45,120 years he was originally Baird from the 600 00:23:49,399 --> 00:23:47,760 SS because of um Willa god I believe 601 00:23:52,340 --> 00:23:49,409 that's all pronounced carla maria 602 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:52,350 Wiligut who was for many years in blurs 603 00:23:56,750 --> 00:23:54,450 kind of primary a cold advisor and so 604 00:23:58,700 --> 00:23:56,760 they it turned up some evidence of his 605 00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:58,710 mental instability which led to him 606 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:00,480 being purged from the SS but anyway 607 00:24:06,529 --> 00:24:02,730 evelope was brought in around the late 608 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:06,539 1930s possibly sooner towards the end of 609 00:24:10,240 --> 00:24:09,450 the war Evelyn was actually stationed in 610 00:24:12,769 --> 00:24:10,250 Vienna 611 00:24:15,350 --> 00:24:12,779 excuse me Salzburg and this was the same 612 00:24:17,930 --> 00:24:15,360 city that landing it ended up stationed 613 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:17,940 in and at the time both men were working 614 00:24:23,840 --> 00:24:20,610 for the SD which was the intelligence 615 00:24:26,299 --> 00:24:23,850 division of the SS so they're basically 616 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:26,309 in the same city working for the same 617 00:24:30,889 --> 00:24:29,010 division of the SS at the time and 618 00:24:33,710 --> 00:24:30,899 there's a lot of mysteries surrounding 619 00:24:35,930 --> 00:24:33,720 what exactly Evelyn was even doing the 620 00:24:39,139 --> 00:24:35,940 SS then he claimed that he had been 621 00:24:41,690 --> 00:24:39,149 writing a book that was um a history of 622 00:24:43,789 --> 00:24:41,700 secret societies the material which was 623 00:24:47,149 --> 00:24:43,799 later lost to the Russians apparently 624 00:24:49,450 --> 00:24:47,159 and some people such as Kevin googan 625 00:24:53,139 --> 00:24:49,460 have theorized that Evelyn was in fact 626 00:24:55,330 --> 00:24:53,149 trying to develop a mythology for Nazi 627 00:24:57,279 --> 00:24:55,340 Germany after the war was over with by 628 00:24:58,810 --> 00:24:57,289 this time they generally felt that it 629 00:25:00,610 --> 00:24:58,820 was inevitable that they were going to 630 00:25:03,549 --> 00:25:00,620 lose so they were already setting up the 631 00:25:05,350 --> 00:25:03,559 kind of post-war network for Nazism to 632 00:25:07,899 --> 00:25:05,360 survive which force plays into the 633 00:25:09,850 --> 00:25:07,909 ratlines and all this other stuff but 634 00:25:11,380 --> 00:25:09,860 the theory is that evelope had been 635 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:11,390 tapped essentially to come up with a 636 00:25:16,510 --> 00:25:13,730 kind of Mythology for this post-war Nazi 637 00:25:18,399 --> 00:25:16,520 movement and certainly land dig does 638 00:25:21,010 --> 00:25:18,409 seem to have provided a lot of this 639 00:25:23,950 --> 00:25:21,020 post-war Nazi movement with a mythology 640 00:25:26,380 --> 00:25:23,960 and obviously there was a lot of evert 641 00:25:30,100 --> 00:25:26,390 influence from Julius Avila and LAN 642 00:25:32,409 --> 00:25:30,110 Diggs ideology Land acknowledged this 643 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:32,419 but it might have gone into Sivan more 644 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:35,090 arcane concepts such as the Black Sun 645 00:25:40,899 --> 00:25:38,090 which landed and his kind of group are 646 00:25:44,139 --> 00:25:40,909 chiefly credited with introducing into 647 00:25:45,789 --> 00:25:44,149 the kind of esoteric Nazism pedalo would 648 00:25:47,409 --> 00:25:45,799 have been somebody who would have been 649 00:25:49,210 --> 00:25:47,419 probably would have been aware of such a 650 00:25:52,750 --> 00:25:49,220 concept he never wrote about the Black 651 00:25:54,669 --> 00:25:52,760 Sun but the Black Sun was a very arcane 652 00:25:58,659 --> 00:25:54,679 concept even within a lot of occult 653 00:26:01,720 --> 00:25:58,669 circles until really the early 90s late 654 00:26:04,330 --> 00:26:01,730 80s thereabouts so I definitely think 655 00:26:07,380 --> 00:26:04,340 that there's a strong chance that Evelyn 656 00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:07,390 did have enormous influence on land eggs 657 00:26:11,980 --> 00:26:10,490 ideology and what's more it might have 658 00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:11,990 been as part of some kind of 659 00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:14,000 intelligence agenda that went back to 660 00:26:21,039 --> 00:26:16,730 the wife and SS and the waning years of 661 00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:21,049 World War two hmm interesting then and 662 00:26:27,010 --> 00:26:24,770 to get a little bit more into UFOs in 663 00:26:28,779 --> 00:26:27,020 the info that came out about them in the 664 00:26:31,149 --> 00:26:28,789 last few decades many of these stories 665 00:26:33,010 --> 00:26:31,159 and whistleblowers do have connections 666 00:26:35,230 --> 00:26:33,020 to military intelligence as you've said 667 00:26:36,010 --> 00:26:35,240 the Bob Lazar story the philip corso 668 00:26:38,590 --> 00:26:36,020 story 669 00:26:40,930 --> 00:26:38,600 I mean how likely is it that this was 670 00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:40,940 some distraction campaign to keep eyes 671 00:26:46,299 --> 00:26:44,450 away from occult rituals going on in the 672 00:26:48,940 --> 00:26:46,309 scientific and military communities like 673 00:26:51,460 --> 00:26:48,950 Jack Parsons in the Babylon working or 674 00:26:53,919 --> 00:26:51,470 what you mentioned earlier Chris Knowles 675 00:26:56,289 --> 00:26:53,929 and what he calls the Roswell working I 676 00:26:59,200 --> 00:26:56,299 mean how likely is it that this was kind 677 00:27:01,900 --> 00:26:59,210 of a limited hangout operation to hide 678 00:27:04,510 --> 00:27:01,910 these kind of occult things 679 00:27:06,850 --> 00:27:04,520 oh I definitely think that very much I 680 00:27:09,820 --> 00:27:06,860 mean that was yeah what was being done 681 00:27:11,650 --> 00:27:09,830 especially with the perception of UFOs 682 00:27:13,660 --> 00:27:11,660 that has been presented to the general 683 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:13,670 public namely that there you know nuts 684 00:27:17,590 --> 00:27:15,650 and bolts spacecrafts that are piloted 685 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:17,600 by extraterrestrial biological entities 686 00:27:22,390 --> 00:27:20,930 who you know decided to stop by here for 687 00:27:24,070 --> 00:27:22,400 a visit even though in our own 688 00:27:25,690 --> 00:27:24,080 experience with safe travel we would 689 00:27:27,700 --> 00:27:25,700 have almost surely sent drones or 690 00:27:29,770 --> 00:27:27,710 something to that effect investigate on 691 00:27:32,830 --> 00:27:29,780 other planets but yeah and I mean I 692 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:32,840 think a lot of that also plays into the 693 00:27:37,570 --> 00:27:35,090 actual purpose of some of these behavior 694 00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:37,580 modification programs that were being 695 00:27:42,850 --> 00:27:39,890 conducted by the Pentagon and the CIA at 696 00:27:45,700 --> 00:27:42,860 the same time - I know Chris Nola's has 697 00:27:47,250 --> 00:27:45,710 speculated a lot especially on you know 698 00:27:49,140 --> 00:27:47,260 the desire to do so many people 699 00:27:52,860 --> 00:27:49,150 massively with LSD 700 00:27:55,450 --> 00:27:52,870 during the early 50s especially since 701 00:27:58,480 --> 00:27:55,460 lfts track record as a drug for 702 00:28:01,930 --> 00:27:58,490 mind-control was pretty mediocre in all 703 00:28:04,210 --> 00:28:01,940 honesty and the CIA continued to use it 704 00:28:07,780 --> 00:28:04,220 over and over again even though their 705 00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:07,790 attempts its eliciting mind-control with 706 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:11,090 it were not especially great based on 707 00:28:15,850 --> 00:28:12,770 some of the Declassified accounts of 708 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:15,860 those that I've read so it does kind of 709 00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:17,570 beg the question why did they keep doing 710 00:28:21,820 --> 00:28:19,370 this over and over again and at some 711 00:28:23,620 --> 00:28:21,830 point did somebody start to wonder about 712 00:28:25,180 --> 00:28:23,630 the nature of the visions that they were 713 00:28:27,550 --> 00:28:25,190 seeing if there was something more to 714 00:28:29,620 --> 00:28:27,560 the visions themselves and it kind of 715 00:28:31,510 --> 00:28:29,630 raises the broader questions we'll you 716 00:28:33,580 --> 00:28:31,520 know then why was it released so broadly 717 00:28:35,440 --> 00:28:33,590 to the general public I mean the 718 00:28:37,090 --> 00:28:35,450 conspiratorial right as long as soon 719 00:28:39,670 --> 00:28:37,100 that this was again another part of an 720 00:28:41,530 --> 00:28:39,680 elaborate mind-control plot but was it 721 00:28:43,090 --> 00:28:41,540 actually part of an attempt for 722 00:28:44,710 --> 00:28:43,100 consciousness expansion and a 723 00:28:48,190 --> 00:28:44,720 consciousness expansion that was related 724 00:28:50,290 --> 00:28:48,200 to the UFO phenomenon certainly um in 725 00:28:52,930 --> 00:28:50,300 the early years of artichoke they had 726 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:52,940 two goals that were rather interesting 727 00:28:57,280 --> 00:28:55,130 one of them was to develop more 728 00:29:00,010 --> 00:28:57,290 effective means of interrogation which 729 00:29:02,230 --> 00:29:00,020 is rather self-explanatory but another 730 00:29:05,530 --> 00:29:02,240 goal was to create what was referred to 731 00:29:07,300 --> 00:29:05,540 as more aggressive soldiers which 732 00:29:10,270 --> 00:29:07,310 nowadays would be referred to as super 733 00:29:12,580 --> 00:29:10,280 soldiers right and that that's something 734 00:29:14,260 --> 00:29:12,590 I wanted to make a point about because 735 00:29:15,370 --> 00:29:14,270 when you're writing and talking about 736 00:29:18,460 --> 00:29:15,380 Chris's eye 737 00:29:20,799 --> 00:29:18,470 of a Roswell working he points out how 738 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:20,809 the Roswell incident mirrors the Greek 739 00:29:25,690 --> 00:29:23,330 myth of Cadmus and the Martian well and 740 00:29:27,940 --> 00:29:25,700 you note that when it comes to the beans 741 00:29:30,220 --> 00:29:27,950 that emerge from the well I was not 742 00:29:32,590 --> 00:29:30,230 reminded of reptiles rather I was struck 743 00:29:35,500 --> 00:29:32,600 by how much they resembled enhanced or 744 00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:35,510 super soldiers and it just so happens to 745 00:29:38,470 --> 00:29:36,650 be a reader that one of the primary 746 00:29:41,020 --> 00:29:38,480 objectives of Bluebird and later 747 00:29:43,150 --> 00:29:41,030 artichoke was the creation of super 748 00:29:44,650 --> 00:29:43,160 soldiers so you know I just want to 749 00:29:48,159 --> 00:29:44,660 throw that in there too because it ties 750 00:29:49,570 --> 00:29:48,169 in and I mean it's not say what what do 751 00:29:51,850 --> 00:29:49,580 you think is going on here this 752 00:29:54,700 --> 00:29:51,860 mirroring of ancient myth within the 753 00:29:56,980 --> 00:29:54,710 deep state well I think a lot of it kind 754 00:29:59,440 --> 00:29:56,990 of breaks down to psychic phenomenon I 755 00:30:01,720 --> 00:29:59,450 mean certainly it seems like a part of 756 00:30:03,640 --> 00:30:01,730 the super-soldier project was to 757 00:30:05,860 --> 00:30:03,650 investigate psychic phenomenon and that 758 00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:05,870 later kind of manifested in the you know 759 00:30:09,789 --> 00:30:07,970 projects grill flame and Stargate and 760 00:30:12,310 --> 00:30:09,799 what-have-you that were rated related to 761 00:30:13,990 --> 00:30:12,320 remote viewing and of course with the 762 00:30:16,149 --> 00:30:14,000 UFO phenomenon there's been a lot of 763 00:30:17,890 --> 00:30:16,159 speculation that it's closely related to 764 00:30:20,830 --> 00:30:17,900 psychic phenomenon of course a lot of 765 00:30:22,510 --> 00:30:20,840 people have reported instances of 766 00:30:24,279 --> 00:30:22,520 telepathy and what-have-you when having 767 00:30:27,610 --> 00:30:24,289 Close Encounters and what-have-you and 768 00:30:30,039 --> 00:30:27,620 there are even some theories that the 769 00:30:32,830 --> 00:30:30,049 spaceships or the UFOs themselves are 770 00:30:34,690 --> 00:30:32,840 not physically there there's some kind 771 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:34,700 of astral projection or something of 772 00:30:38,919 --> 00:30:37,250 that nature as a means of visiting the 773 00:30:41,710 --> 00:30:38,929 planet or visiting it from wherever 774 00:30:43,539 --> 00:30:41,720 they're coming from rather than actually 775 00:30:45,850 --> 00:30:43,549 sending a physical craft there it's some 776 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:45,860 kind of you know mental phenomenon if 777 00:30:51,370 --> 00:30:48,890 you will mm-hmm so we're talking a 778 00:30:53,890 --> 00:30:51,380 little bit about artichoke and you also 779 00:30:56,890 --> 00:30:53,900 write about the nine a bit and when it 780 00:30:59,049 --> 00:30:56,900 comes to the political corporate and 781 00:31:01,419 --> 00:30:59,059 military elite contacting non-human 782 00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:01,429 entities the story of and rayappa horik 783 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:04,010 the seance with the Council of nine it's 784 00:31:07,930 --> 00:31:05,570 got to be one of my favorite stories 785 00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:07,940 this group of elite contact these nine 786 00:31:11,710 --> 00:31:10,130 multi-dimensional beings hovering and an 787 00:31:13,750 --> 00:31:11,720 invisible spaceship that want to 788 00:31:16,090 --> 00:31:13,760 influence world events we've talked 789 00:31:18,370 --> 00:31:16,100 about the basics of the story with Peter 790 00:31:20,289 --> 00:31:18,380 Levin de and Gordon white but you say 791 00:31:23,430 --> 00:31:20,299 that from your study the ties between 792 00:31:26,140 --> 00:31:23,440 the nine and the office of security and 793 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:26,150 project artichoke are grossly under 794 00:31:28,930 --> 00:31:27,890 reported so what can you tell us about 795 00:31:31,870 --> 00:31:28,940 that and why 796 00:31:34,150 --> 00:31:31,880 it might be important well yeah again 797 00:31:36,100 --> 00:31:34,160 you know the office of security was of 798 00:31:38,710 --> 00:31:36,110 course the agency that had overseen 799 00:31:40,990 --> 00:31:38,720 artichoke it was not the TSS as is 800 00:31:42,970 --> 00:31:41,000 commonly claimed and another thing I 801 00:31:45,330 --> 00:31:42,980 should probably make a point here the 802 00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:45,340 mainland is very rarely mentioned but 803 00:31:51,370 --> 00:31:48,910 artichoke was not rolled in MKULTRA 804 00:31:53,770 --> 00:31:51,380 artichoke continued to function after 805 00:31:56,310 --> 00:31:53,780 MKULTRA was initiated and appears to 806 00:31:58,990 --> 00:31:56,320 have continued to at least the early 60s 807 00:32:01,060 --> 00:31:59,000 probably was finally wrapped up around 808 00:32:04,660 --> 00:32:01,070 the same time that MKULTRA was wrapping 809 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:04,670 up in 1963 and then on top of that 810 00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:07,250 QED horik has long been believed to have 811 00:32:12,460 --> 00:32:10,490 been involved in MKULTRA and he does 812 00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:12,470 seem to have had some kind of ties to it 813 00:32:19,090 --> 00:32:15,890 but as both HPL brilliant several 814 00:32:20,350 --> 00:32:19,100 mistake and oh gosh I can't remember the 815 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:20,360 name of the other book right now but 816 00:32:25,570 --> 00:32:23,090 it's on the stage magician Jon Mahal and 817 00:32:27,460 --> 00:32:25,580 it also makes clear from recovered 818 00:32:29,710 --> 00:32:27,470 Freedom of Information Act documents 819 00:32:31,870 --> 00:32:29,720 that few horik actually was involved 820 00:32:35,050 --> 00:32:31,880 with artichoke and not MKULTRA an 821 00:32:38,620 --> 00:32:35,060 important fact the MKULTRA crew seems to 822 00:32:42,190 --> 00:32:38,630 have had some real reluctancy towards to 823 00:32:44,590 --> 00:32:42,200 Horrocks theories and that also raises 824 00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:44,600 some interesting possibilities there I 825 00:32:48,700 --> 00:32:46,850 mean Q hurrican he began with psychic 826 00:32:51,550 --> 00:32:48,710 research and what-have-you did it with 827 00:32:52,810 --> 00:32:51,560 the round table group and the round 828 00:32:54,940 --> 00:32:52,820 table group certainly brought together 829 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:54,950 an interesting cross-section of kind of 830 00:32:59,650 --> 00:32:56,690 Eastern establishment of leads and 831 00:33:01,270 --> 00:32:59,660 military intelligence officers few hard 832 00:33:03,970 --> 00:33:01,280 from that was later brought into the 833 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:03,980 deep state into the military and the CIA 834 00:33:08,830 --> 00:33:05,690 you know behavior modification 835 00:33:11,500 --> 00:33:08,840 experiments and then he did something 836 00:33:14,860 --> 00:33:11,510 that greatly upset John Holland who was 837 00:33:17,620 --> 00:33:14,870 a stage musician who was a consultant 838 00:33:20,350 --> 00:33:17,630 for NK ultra nobody really knows what 839 00:33:22,510 --> 00:33:20,360 exactly this is but anyway my Hollins 840 00:33:24,940 --> 00:33:22,520 went out of his way to essentially drum 841 00:33:27,190 --> 00:33:24,950 to horik out of the behavior 842 00:33:31,540 --> 00:33:27,200 modification experiments in the mid 50's 843 00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:31,550 and Mahalo was also very close to Nelson 844 00:33:36,790 --> 00:33:34,130 Rockefeller and as Chris Nola's kind of 845 00:33:38,050 --> 00:33:36,800 explained in his own account of the 9g 846 00:33:40,810 --> 00:33:38,060 horik would later runneth all the 847 00:33:42,310 --> 00:33:40,820 Rockefellers in the 1980s as well with 848 00:33:45,129 --> 00:33:42,320 his attempts to try to come 849 00:33:46,990 --> 00:33:45,139 with an alternative to oil for fuel so 850 00:33:48,999 --> 00:33:47,000 pure exceeds they've had a lot of issues 851 00:33:52,539 --> 00:33:49,009 with the Rockefeller group over the 852 00:33:54,490 --> 00:33:52,549 years and that's not entirely surprising 853 00:33:56,259 --> 00:33:54,500 you sort of look at what the 854 00:33:59,110 --> 00:33:56,269 Rockefellers have supported in the New 855 00:34:02,889 --> 00:33:59,120 Age community quote-unquote they tend to 856 00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:02,899 seem to prefer the most well basically 857 00:34:06,370 --> 00:34:04,610 they have usually going with more of 858 00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:06,380 like the nuts and bolts explanations of 859 00:34:11,379 --> 00:34:08,810 UFO phenomenon and they almost seem to 860 00:34:13,659 --> 00:34:11,389 prefer a kind of atheistic approach the 861 00:34:15,490 --> 00:34:13,669 New Age movement typically stripping a 862 00:34:17,319 --> 00:34:15,500 lot of these spiritual practices that 863 00:34:19,510 --> 00:34:17,329 they're you know innate spirituality and 864 00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:19,520 trying to reduce them to almost like a 865 00:34:25,270 --> 00:34:21,050 psychological state but I'm going 866 00:34:26,649 --> 00:34:25,280 off-topic but um in you I think that 867 00:34:28,780 --> 00:34:26,659 there was definitely kind of a division 868 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:28,790 in the deep state over kuhar it was some 869 00:34:33,040 --> 00:34:31,490 people kind of you know feeling like 870 00:34:34,540 --> 00:34:33,050 that what he was doing was incredibly 871 00:34:36,309 --> 00:34:34,550 radical some people thinking it was 872 00:34:40,780 --> 00:34:36,319 totally fraudulent and what-have-you and 873 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:40,790 that probably played into you know kind 874 00:34:43,869 --> 00:34:42,290 of some of the shake of the win in in 875 00:34:45,550 --> 00:34:43,879 these projects at the time of course 876 00:34:47,649 --> 00:34:45,560 Sidney Gottlieb I was kind of elevated 877 00:34:50,530 --> 00:34:47,659 to the top of the litter with MKULTRA 878 00:34:53,050 --> 00:34:50,540 and contrary to what you sort of hear 879 00:34:55,930 --> 00:34:53,060 Godley have actually wound down a lot of 880 00:34:58,870 --> 00:34:55,940 the LSD testing and what-have-you during 881 00:35:01,390 --> 00:34:58,880 his tenure is kind of the main agency 882 00:35:05,079 --> 00:35:01,400 directing this kind of things from 1955 883 00:35:06,460 --> 00:35:05,089 to 63 and well he did investigate some 884 00:35:08,380 --> 00:35:06,470 degree of psychic phenomenon 885 00:35:12,550 --> 00:35:08,390 what-have-you it was not nearly to the 886 00:35:14,260 --> 00:35:12,560 extent that artichoke did so it was kind 887 00:35:16,329 --> 00:35:14,270 of an interesting situation where you 888 00:35:19,690 --> 00:35:16,339 had that kind of period in the late 40s 889 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:19,700 to the early 50s where the military and 890 00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:22,130 the CIA were really going into a lot of 891 00:35:27,339 --> 00:35:25,730 very very strange topics and then when 892 00:35:29,970 --> 00:35:27,349 the Rockefeller money kind of got 893 00:35:32,680 --> 00:35:29,980 involved with MKULTRA in the mid 50s 894 00:35:34,690 --> 00:35:32,690 they tended to start disengaging 895 00:35:37,720 --> 00:35:34,700 themselves from a lot of these projects 896 00:35:39,910 --> 00:35:37,730 until the mid 1960s and you had the 897 00:35:41,650 --> 00:35:39,920 initiation of MK often and then later 898 00:35:43,420 --> 00:35:41,660 grilled flame which eventually became 899 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:43,430 Stargate and it kind of started back up 900 00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:46,010 again which was around the same time the 901 00:35:50,770 --> 00:35:47,930 Tijara himself was kind of brought back 902 00:35:53,710 --> 00:35:50,780 into the deep state with the very killer 903 00:35:56,170 --> 00:35:53,720 you know phenomenon and what have you 904 00:35:59,380 --> 00:35:56,180 so there does seem to have been some 905 00:36:01,810 --> 00:35:59,390 kind of conflict between elements of the 906 00:36:03,310 --> 00:36:01,820 national security establishment over you 907 00:36:04,780 --> 00:36:03,320 know what to do with this kind of 908 00:36:07,690 --> 00:36:04,790 information that they were uncovering 909 00:36:10,930 --> 00:36:07,700 and I suspect kind of a hard scientific 910 00:36:14,099 --> 00:36:10,940 weighing just didn't even want to really 911 00:36:16,540 --> 00:36:14,109 deal with it if that makes any sense 912 00:36:19,390 --> 00:36:16,550 right I mean yeah 913 00:36:22,020 --> 00:36:19,400 harge is definitely a interesting 914 00:36:25,089 --> 00:36:22,030 character if you've ever seen that show 915 00:36:26,470 --> 00:36:25,099 one step beyond the episode he did with 916 00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:26,480 Gordon Watson where they go down and 917 00:36:30,460 --> 00:36:28,730 they take magic mushrooms on the air on 918 00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:30,470 black-and-white television in an era 919 00:36:34,720 --> 00:36:32,570 where a husband and wife couldn't even 920 00:36:38,140 --> 00:36:34,730 sleep in the same bed together it was 921 00:36:41,020 --> 00:36:38,150 just such a weird thing to see on TV and 922 00:36:42,820 --> 00:36:41,030 uh whoo harsh yeah was into a lot of 923 00:36:45,460 --> 00:36:42,830 crazy stuff with a nine being one of 924 00:36:47,109 --> 00:36:45,470 those favorite stories it's a 925 00:36:51,570 --> 00:36:47,119 provocative idea but how far do you 926 00:36:53,890 --> 00:36:51,580 think the influence of those beings got 927 00:36:56,230 --> 00:36:53,900 what I mean it certainly you know 928 00:36:57,849 --> 00:36:56,240 appears that it was very very advanced 929 00:36:59,920 --> 00:36:57,859 since the American state I mean of 930 00:37:01,300 --> 00:36:59,930 course a lot of you know a lot of 931 00:37:03,370 --> 00:37:01,310 information has come out about their 932 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:03,380 ties to the Kennedy assassination of 933 00:37:07,870 --> 00:37:05,690 course Peter Loeb India was really at 934 00:37:10,030 --> 00:37:07,880 the forefront of that and then in my own 935 00:37:12,430 --> 00:37:10,040 series I kind of found out that there 936 00:37:14,859 --> 00:37:12,440 were a lot of interact links to 937 00:37:17,500 --> 00:37:14,869 Watergate as well to kind of briefly 938 00:37:19,810 --> 00:37:17,510 surmise that part of the plumbers team 939 00:37:22,329 --> 00:37:19,820 the guy who seems to have really bungled 940 00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:22,339 the Watergate break-in was James McCord 941 00:37:27,790 --> 00:37:25,490 and James McCord was himself a veteran 942 00:37:30,130 --> 00:37:27,800 of the office of security he had worked 943 00:37:33,550 --> 00:37:30,140 for Gaynor and Boris Allen going back to 944 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:33,560 the 1940s when the court was in the FBI 945 00:37:38,500 --> 00:37:37,010 and the chord I don't know if he was 946 00:37:40,750 --> 00:37:38,510 involved in artichoke but there's a 947 00:37:43,060 --> 00:37:40,760 strong possibility that he was in some 948 00:37:46,020 --> 00:37:43,070 capacity he appears to have been the 949 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:46,030 agent the office of security dispatch to 950 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:48,890 investigate and or cover-up Franco's his 951 00:37:52,930 --> 00:37:50,810 death depending upon you know what you 952 00:37:55,300 --> 00:37:52,940 choose to believe in that matter but 953 00:37:57,810 --> 00:37:55,310 McCord definitely seems to have been 954 00:38:01,180 --> 00:37:57,820 very close to this you know group of 955 00:38:03,670 --> 00:38:01,190 artichoke people who oversaw the project 956 00:38:06,350 --> 00:38:03,680 in the same token Morris Allen was also 957 00:38:08,030 --> 00:38:06,360 to Horrocks major patron within 958 00:38:11,180 --> 00:38:08,040 you know the intelligence community at 959 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:11,190 that time as well so you fast forwards 960 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:14,010 at the time of Watergate McCord seems to 961 00:38:18,650 --> 00:38:15,930 have been running some kind of sexual 962 00:38:20,510 --> 00:38:18,660 blackmail operation which I kind of 963 00:38:23,450 --> 00:38:20,520 hinted at earlier was a real specialty 964 00:38:26,000 --> 00:38:23,460 of the office of security and that kind 965 00:38:28,340 --> 00:38:26,010 of led to the Watergate break-in and 966 00:38:30,860 --> 00:38:28,350 ultimately the downfall of Nixon's 967 00:38:32,270 --> 00:38:30,870 presidency but I was definitely struck 968 00:38:34,250 --> 00:38:32,280 by the fact that I mean certainly you 969 00:38:37,070 --> 00:38:34,260 know you don't have a lot of degrees of 970 00:38:39,800 --> 00:38:37,080 separation between two hard who had 971 00:38:41,900 --> 00:38:39,810 contacted the 9/2 McCord the only real 972 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:41,910 degree of separation being Morris Allen 973 00:38:45,550 --> 00:38:43,890 and this is kind of the same thing that 974 00:38:49,580 --> 00:38:45,560 you find in the Kennedy assassination 975 00:38:52,250 --> 00:38:49,590 where you know Marina Oswald was staying 976 00:38:54,470 --> 00:38:52,260 with the stepson I believe it was of 977 00:38:56,090 --> 00:38:54,480 Arthur Young who was another one of the 978 00:39:00,140 --> 00:38:56,100 individuals who had channeled the nine 979 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:00,150 with euphoric back in the early 1950s so 980 00:39:05,060 --> 00:39:02,850 yeah it's just you know incredible the 981 00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:05,070 two of the really defining political 982 00:39:09,350 --> 00:39:06,720 events in the United States the second 983 00:39:11,390 --> 00:39:09,360 half of the 20th century ie the Kennedy 984 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:11,400 assassination and Watergate do you have 985 00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:14,010 the presence of these no alleged beings 986 00:39:18,350 --> 00:39:17,130 not very far in the background and you 987 00:39:19,970 --> 00:39:18,360 know and certainly I mean this kind of 988 00:39:22,390 --> 00:39:19,980 underlined I mean it generally turbulent 989 00:39:26,300 --> 00:39:22,400 era for the United States in general so 990 00:39:28,460 --> 00:39:26,310 yeah it definitely makes you wonder just 991 00:39:30,050 --> 00:39:28,470 what exactly you know philosophies we're 992 00:39:33,590 --> 00:39:30,060 being bantered about in the ruling elite 993 00:39:36,470 --> 00:39:33,600 at the time circling but mm-hmm 994 00:39:38,510 --> 00:39:36,480 and you know I also like when you talk 995 00:39:40,460 --> 00:39:38,520 about the idea that everybody knows 996 00:39:43,220 --> 00:39:40,470 MKULTRA but they don't know these other 997 00:39:45,620 --> 00:39:43,230 things like project Bluebird project 998 00:39:49,610 --> 00:39:45,630 artichoke m'kay often and it does seem 999 00:39:51,350 --> 00:39:49,620 like it was a situation where they took 1000 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:51,360 all these deep state projects going on 1001 00:39:55,100 --> 00:39:52,890 at the time and they just as soon as 1002 00:39:56,870 --> 00:39:55,110 MKULTRA was exposed they just tossed it 1003 00:39:59,150 --> 00:39:56,880 all under that umbrella and let it be 1004 00:40:00,890 --> 00:39:59,160 the scapegoat and said oh this is all 1005 00:40:04,130 --> 00:40:00,900 over and it was all just this one 1006 00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:04,140 program and that's it I think that might 1007 00:40:09,470 --> 00:40:06,810 be a way they covered their tracks for a 1008 00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:09,480 lot of this stuff well absolutely and 1009 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:12,810 then also I think specifically to Sidney 1010 00:40:17,450 --> 00:40:14,610 Gottlieb I was really hung out to dry 1011 00:40:20,070 --> 00:40:17,460 but the CIA there's a very interesting 1012 00:40:22,890 --> 00:40:20,080 antidote that htl beryllium 1013 00:40:25,470 --> 00:40:22,900 a terrible mistake it was a leave either 1014 00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:25,480 a letter exchange or conversation he had 1015 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:27,970 had with John Marx who would be 1016 00:40:31,500 --> 00:40:29,770 individual who rode in search of The 1017 00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:31,510 Manchurian Candidate which is the first 1018 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:34,240 expose of these types of projects but it 1019 00:40:37,650 --> 00:40:35,770 wasn't the very first one but it was the 1020 00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:37,660 first really full range folk account of 1021 00:40:43,010 --> 00:40:41,050 it but anyway Marx had filed the Freedom 1022 00:40:45,660 --> 00:40:43,020 of Information Act and what have you 1023 00:40:47,820 --> 00:40:45,670 which led to the original documentation 1024 00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:47,830 coming out on MKULTRA and these other 1025 00:40:53,670 --> 00:40:50,010 projects and in the first bad 1026 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:53,680 documentation he got us every single 1027 00:40:59,610 --> 00:40:55,570 name was blacked out 1028 00:41:01,920 --> 00:40:59,620 everyone except Sidney got lives ah that 1029 00:41:04,380 --> 00:41:01,930 was the only name and whole thing that 1030 00:41:06,780 --> 00:41:04,390 they gave him and got Liev is perceived 1031 00:41:09,180 --> 00:41:06,790 as this you know black sorcerer in the 1032 00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:09,190 CIA who was involved in these just you 1033 00:41:14,370 --> 00:41:11,650 know every arcane project and yet the 1034 00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:14,380 CIA did nothing to protect him I mean he 1035 00:41:17,970 --> 00:41:16,330 was the first person who they really 1036 00:41:20,190 --> 00:41:17,980 hung out I mean for the MKULTRA 1037 00:41:22,710 --> 00:41:20,200 experiment so ii mean i definitely 1038 00:41:24,660 --> 00:41:22,720 raises the question of like why got Liev 1039 00:41:28,830 --> 00:41:24,670 if he was involved in get oh so much 1040 00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:28,840 secretive work I definitely think the 1041 00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:30,970 reason why God we have an MKULTRA were 1042 00:41:36,030 --> 00:41:33,250 sort of selected to be the ones that's 1043 00:41:38,010 --> 00:41:36,040 uh you know took the fall for these 1044 00:41:39,900 --> 00:41:38,020 other experiments is because whether I 1045 00:41:43,110 --> 00:41:39,910 think we're effectively two reasons on 1046 00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:43,120 the one hand I think that there was more 1047 00:41:47,940 --> 00:41:45,370 legal loopholes to exploit with the 1048 00:41:50,790 --> 00:41:47,950 MKULTRA experiments a lot of the 1049 00:41:53,790 --> 00:41:50,800 experiments were sort of done with quasi 1050 00:41:55,410 --> 00:41:53,800 volunteers and then even in the cases of 1051 00:41:57,690 --> 00:41:55,420 some of the experiments that words such 1052 00:41:59,070 --> 00:41:57,700 as the you know infamous camera and a 1053 00:42:01,980 --> 00:41:59,080 medical experiments that were conducted 1054 00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:01,990 in Canada the women in those experiments 1055 00:42:08,700 --> 00:42:06,610 had volunteered to be treated by Cameron 1056 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:08,710 they were largely people who admitted 1057 00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:10,570 themselves for you know psychiatric 1058 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:12,610 treatment and they knew the Cameron was 1059 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:14,770 involved in you know radical procedures 1060 00:42:18,270 --> 00:42:16,930 obviously they did not know that he was 1061 00:42:21,390 --> 00:42:18,280 doing these experiments on behalf the 1062 00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:21,400 CIA but there was some you know legal 1063 00:42:26,220 --> 00:42:23,410 wig wiggle room with this kind of stuff 1064 00:42:28,020 --> 00:42:26,230 whereas with artichoke for instance they 1065 00:42:30,810 --> 00:42:28,030 seem to have done a lot of experiments 1066 00:42:31,830 --> 00:42:30,820 on prisoners and military men and 1067 00:42:34,290 --> 00:42:31,840 what-have-you 1068 00:42:36,060 --> 00:42:34,300 were given no choice in any of this they 1069 00:42:37,830 --> 00:42:36,070 were not in many cases aware that they 1070 00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:37,840 were even being performed experiments 1071 00:42:44,820 --> 00:42:41,280 upon so there were I think legal 1072 00:42:47,130 --> 00:42:44,830 considerations for this and then the 1073 00:42:49,350 --> 00:42:47,140 other one which the other reason why I 1074 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:49,360 think MKULTRA was really hung out is the 1075 00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:51,490 main one which is also interesting is 1076 00:42:59,610 --> 00:42:55,210 because MKULTRA was totally overseen by 1077 00:43:02,760 --> 00:42:59,620 the CIA artichoke and often by contrast 1078 00:43:05,010 --> 00:43:02,770 for Joint Pentagon and CIA experiments 1079 00:43:07,200 --> 00:43:05,020 and the general perception is that the 1080 00:43:09,270 --> 00:43:07,210 CIA led the Pentagon around by the nose 1081 00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:09,280 and these experiments and I don't think 1082 00:43:12,770 --> 00:43:11,410 though that that's a very accurate 1083 00:43:15,390 --> 00:43:12,780 description of the relationship 1084 00:43:17,490 --> 00:43:15,400 obviously the Pentagon had been doing 1085 00:43:21,690 --> 00:43:17,500 these experiments that predated the CIA 1086 00:43:24,300 --> 00:43:21,700 and even the foundation of the CIA so I 1087 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:24,310 think certainly in revealing MKULTRA 1088 00:43:28,350 --> 00:43:25,930 there was also an attempt to try to 1089 00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:28,360 cover up the you know extent that the 1090 00:43:33,270 --> 00:43:30,160 Pentagon had also been involved in this 1091 00:43:35,670 --> 00:43:33,280 kind of research and you also mentioned 1092 00:43:37,260 --> 00:43:35,680 on your blog that Godley Ave was Jewish 1093 00:43:39,660 --> 00:43:37,270 do you think that has any real 1094 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:39,670 significance and him being thrown under 1095 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:43,450 the bus yeah yeah there was also I mean 1096 00:43:46,260 --> 00:43:45,010 of course there's a lot of you know 1097 00:43:48,390 --> 00:43:46,270 information out there that there was 1098 00:43:51,300 --> 00:43:48,400 quite a bit of annex and Metis ISM and 1099 00:43:53,940 --> 00:43:51,310 you know some of the early CIA sections 1100 00:43:55,590 --> 00:43:53,950 and yes there does seem to have been a 1101 00:43:59,220 --> 00:43:55,600 certain degree of resentment towards God 1102 00:44:01,890 --> 00:43:59,230 liev's jus he was sort of a golden boy 1103 00:44:03,510 --> 00:44:01,900 who rose very high in the ranks fast and 1104 00:44:05,310 --> 00:44:03,520 I do think there were probably some 1105 00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:05,320 people the CIA that were resentful of 1106 00:44:11,010 --> 00:44:08,410 that and then after MKULTRA kind of 1107 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:11,020 surpassed artichoke is the primary 1108 00:44:15,090 --> 00:44:13,690 vehicle for these experiments definitely 1109 00:44:17,910 --> 00:44:15,100 a lot of the office of security 1110 00:44:20,910 --> 00:44:17,920 personnel I think were very bitter about 1111 00:44:22,830 --> 00:44:20,920 this and kind of begin with already men 1112 00:44:24,720 --> 00:44:22,840 like Paul Gaynor and Morris Allen who 1113 00:44:27,330 --> 00:44:24,730 destroyed strong traces of antiques and 1114 00:44:30,000 --> 00:44:27,340 Metis ISM even prior to encountering got 1115 00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:30,010 leav I mean both Gaynor and Morris Allen 1116 00:44:34,500 --> 00:44:32,650 were friends with John Trevor who had 1117 00:44:36,450 --> 00:44:34,510 been a military intelligence officer 1118 00:44:38,940 --> 00:44:36,460 during the first world war 1119 00:44:41,190 --> 00:44:38,950 Trevor had actually developed a battle 1120 00:44:45,300 --> 00:44:41,200 plan for rounding up every Jew in New 1121 00:44:47,250 --> 00:44:45,310 York City during the first world war so 1122 00:44:50,640 --> 00:44:47,260 yeah these guys were definitely around 1123 00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:50,650 some pretty extreme any Semites and that 1124 00:44:54,690 --> 00:44:52,930 definitely could have played into the 1125 00:44:57,030 --> 00:44:54,700 decision to really hang godly about to 1126 00:44:58,800 --> 00:44:57,040 dry yeah I thought that was a pretty 1127 00:45:01,170 --> 00:44:58,810 interesting element because I kind of 1128 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:01,180 started this off with you know your 1129 00:45:06,380 --> 00:45:03,490 quote about the lines between Kabul ISM 1130 00:45:09,180 --> 00:45:06,390 and Nazism being fairly blurred and 1131 00:45:11,670 --> 00:45:09,190 anti-semitism is an interesting thing to 1132 00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:11,680 me because I have no dog and the fight 1133 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:13,690 at all in terms of like caring what 1134 00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:16,210 anybody's race is or any kind of 1135 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:18,850 superiority agenda in that regard but 1136 00:45:22,530 --> 00:45:20,530 when it comes to groups of people that 1137 00:45:25,230 --> 00:45:22,540 work together behind the scenes to 1138 00:45:27,420 --> 00:45:25,240 control the global stage this is 1139 00:45:29,430 --> 00:45:27,430 obviously one group that is talked about 1140 00:45:31,740 --> 00:45:29,440 a lot it's just curious because at that 1141 00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:31,750 upper level you would think that some of 1142 00:45:36,570 --> 00:45:33,610 that anti-semitism would kind of fade 1143 00:45:38,490 --> 00:45:36,580 away because they're more in in concert 1144 00:45:40,280 --> 00:45:38,500 together they're more interconnected but 1145 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:40,290 I guess I guess not 1146 00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:42,610 yeah no I definitely would say 1147 00:45:47,310 --> 00:45:45,130 especially amongst the you know kind of 1148 00:45:50,010 --> 00:45:47,320 anglo-american elite I mean yes there 1149 00:45:52,620 --> 00:45:50,020 was always a certain weariness of the 1150 00:45:54,150 --> 00:45:52,630 Jewish elites and then of course I think 1151 00:45:57,960 --> 00:45:54,160 another kind of factor that played into 1152 00:46:00,900 --> 00:45:57,970 that too is the fact is how can I put 1153 00:46:02,520 --> 00:46:00,910 this delicately uh certainly there were 1154 00:46:05,130 --> 00:46:02,530 a fair amount of Jews in the United 1155 00:46:07,470 --> 00:46:05,140 States in the early to mid 20th century 1156 00:46:10,590 --> 00:46:07,480 that were also involved in organized 1157 00:46:12,270 --> 00:46:10,600 crime and that type of thing Mir Lansky 1158 00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:12,280 of course who was for many years that's 1159 00:46:16,710 --> 00:46:14,290 an answer for the syndicate was a 1160 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:16,720 prominent Jew who later fled Israel 1161 00:46:22,650 --> 00:46:18,850 briefly to avoid prosecution 1162 00:46:25,110 --> 00:46:22,660 there was um lefty Rosenthal I believe 1163 00:46:27,240 --> 00:46:25,120 his name was who was the inspiration for 1164 00:46:32,100 --> 00:46:27,250 the Robert De Niro character in Cassino 1165 00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:32,110 and so on so definitely some of the you 1166 00:46:37,350 --> 00:46:34,090 know Jewish families that acquired their 1167 00:46:39,240 --> 00:46:37,360 money and somewhat criminal enterprises 1168 00:46:41,010 --> 00:46:39,250 which I think put a certain taint to 1169 00:46:42,630 --> 00:46:41,020 them in the eyes of the you know more 1170 00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:42,640 prim and proper angle American 1171 00:46:47,580 --> 00:46:46,330 establishment as well so yeah there were 1172 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:47,590 a lot of these kind of factors that 1173 00:46:52,590 --> 00:46:49,570 played into it and then as I've kind of 1174 00:46:54,470 --> 00:46:52,600 gotten to earlier as well there seems to 1175 00:46:57,330 --> 00:46:54,480 have been a lot more pronounced Anglo 1176 00:46:58,890 --> 00:46:57,340 excuse-me anti-semitism and some of the 1177 00:47:01,500 --> 00:46:58,900 European partners of this 1178 00:47:04,410 --> 00:47:01,510 the delete Network America that wasn't 1179 00:47:07,260 --> 00:47:04,420 quite as pronounced I would say right I 1180 00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:07,270 try to think of it as like and within 1181 00:47:11,910 --> 00:47:09,130 these high-level networks I kind of 1182 00:47:14,279 --> 00:47:11,920 think of it as a game of Thrones where 1183 00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:14,289 imagine you just discover someone as a 1184 00:47:17,849 --> 00:47:16,210 Bonesmen you might be a little more 1185 00:47:19,710 --> 00:47:17,859 skeptical because you're going to think 1186 00:47:21,809 --> 00:47:19,720 oh well this person's going to have an 1187 00:47:24,180 --> 00:47:21,819 allegiance to their group within the 1188 00:47:26,549 --> 00:47:24,190 group before anything else and if you're 1189 00:47:28,650 --> 00:47:26,559 not part of that group you're going to 1190 00:47:31,049 --> 00:47:28,660 maybe be a little paranoid that they're 1191 00:47:33,299 --> 00:47:31,059 ready to stab you in the back so I kind 1192 00:47:34,680 --> 00:47:33,309 of try to think of the Jewish elite in 1193 00:47:37,529 --> 00:47:34,690 the same way is that they're definitely 1194 00:47:40,710 --> 00:47:37,539 working with Germans and fascists and 1195 00:47:42,660 --> 00:47:40,720 Nazis but maybe all these groups are 1196 00:47:45,000 --> 00:47:42,670 kind of looking at what smaller groups 1197 00:47:46,650 --> 00:47:45,010 you know wheels within wheels that these 1198 00:47:48,630 --> 00:47:46,660 people are part of and saying well I 1199 00:47:51,690 --> 00:47:48,640 know that's your true allegiance so you 1200 00:47:53,130 --> 00:47:51,700 might be smiling at me out of one corner 1201 00:47:53,579 --> 00:47:53,140 of your mouth with a knife behind your 1202 00:47:55,410 --> 00:47:53,589 back 1203 00:47:56,839 --> 00:47:55,420 I don't know I kind of try to think of 1204 00:48:00,359 --> 00:47:56,849 it maybe that's the source of 1205 00:48:02,730 --> 00:48:00,369 anti-semitism amongst that level if we 1206 00:48:04,710 --> 00:48:02,740 had a similar word like anti Bonesmen 1207 00:48:06,390 --> 00:48:04,720 you might see the same type of sentiment 1208 00:48:09,450 --> 00:48:06,400 there just isn't really a term to 1209 00:48:11,279 --> 00:48:09,460 describe that type of prejudice well 1210 00:48:13,260 --> 00:48:11,289 yeah I think that some extent and I mean 1211 00:48:15,269 --> 00:48:13,270 in the case of the Jewish leaves I mean 1212 00:48:17,220 --> 00:48:15,279 I definitely think that you know I mean 1213 00:48:20,250 --> 00:48:17,230 as a people the Jews are definitely much 1214 00:48:22,620 --> 00:48:20,260 more cliquish shall we say than certain 1215 00:48:23,809 --> 00:48:22,630 other groups and again I think in a lot 1216 00:48:26,819 --> 00:48:23,819 of ways that's totally understandable 1217 00:48:29,039 --> 00:48:26,829 when you look at the history that 1218 00:48:31,410 --> 00:48:29,049 they've endured and that may also be a 1219 00:48:33,630 --> 00:48:31,420 kind of in the minds of other elites as 1220 00:48:35,309 --> 00:48:33,640 well well are Jews really going to turn 1221 00:48:37,289 --> 00:48:35,319 on other Jews when you sort of look at 1222 00:48:39,059 --> 00:48:37,299 the shared historic experiences of 1223 00:48:42,120 --> 00:48:39,069 persecution that they have for centuries 1224 00:48:43,769 --> 00:48:42,130 and so yeah I mean I think there's 1225 00:48:45,870 --> 00:48:43,779 definitely a lot of factors that play 1226 00:48:49,500 --> 00:48:45,880 into you know where people's allegiances 1227 00:48:50,789 --> 00:48:49,510 ultimately lie mm-hmm yeah and those 1228 00:48:53,609 --> 00:48:50,799 things are going to reinforce themselves 1229 00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:53,619 to like persecution it's going to happen 1230 00:48:57,420 --> 00:48:55,450 because you notice the quick enos and 1231 00:48:58,710 --> 00:48:57,430 then increased quick eNOS is going to 1232 00:49:01,829 --> 00:48:58,720 happen because you notice the 1233 00:49:03,510 --> 00:49:01,839 persecution so it really is like a back 1234 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:03,520 and forth chicken and egg kind of thing 1235 00:49:07,529 --> 00:49:04,930 that reinforces itself 1236 00:49:11,069 --> 00:49:07,539 I guess all throughout history yes yes 1237 00:49:12,450 --> 00:49:11,079 definitely hmm well okay so if most of 1238 00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:12,460 these programs were an exploration 1239 00:49:17,070 --> 00:49:14,290 of consciousness mind control 1240 00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:17,080 psychedelics potentially the opening of 1241 00:49:22,349 --> 00:49:19,690 other realms and magic and contacting 1242 00:49:25,500 --> 00:49:22,359 disembodied Egyptian gods by the time we 1243 00:49:27,359 --> 00:49:25,510 hit the 70's 80's 90's the trail sort of 1244 00:49:29,849 --> 00:49:27,369 runs dry with the exception of the 1245 00:49:31,290 --> 00:49:29,859 distance Oh cam pains around ufology but 1246 00:49:33,930 --> 00:49:31,300 what can be said about these programs 1247 00:49:35,970 --> 00:49:33,940 themselves or the continuing of this 1248 00:49:39,089 --> 00:49:35,980 occult exploration in more recent 1249 00:49:41,010 --> 00:49:39,099 decades well I definitely think a lot of 1250 00:49:42,870 --> 00:49:41,020 it went into the deep private it's 1251 00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:42,880 definitely the scenes to have been the 1252 00:49:48,510 --> 00:49:46,210 case the pace of it I think really 1253 00:49:51,540 --> 00:49:48,520 stepped up especially in the 1980s after 1254 00:49:53,250 --> 00:49:51,550 the you know iran-contra expose days and 1255 00:49:54,839 --> 00:49:53,260 what have you really the trail of a lot 1256 00:49:57,780 --> 00:49:54,849 of the stuff kind of starts to go cold 1257 00:50:00,240 --> 00:49:57,790 ever then but it seems like a lot of it 1258 00:50:03,450 --> 00:50:00,250 was picked up by Robert Bigelow 1259 00:50:05,510 --> 00:50:03,460 he kind of Nevada real estate mogul who 1260 00:50:07,800 --> 00:50:05,520 eventually got into private spaceflight 1261 00:50:09,540 --> 00:50:07,810 that's at least the kind of public 1262 00:50:12,870 --> 00:50:09,550 perception but I mean Bigelow has also 1263 00:50:14,700 --> 00:50:12,880 spent a lot of money promoting UFO ology 1264 00:50:17,430 --> 00:50:14,710 in various forms and he's gotten into 1265 00:50:20,579 --> 00:50:17,440 some very arcane research such as the 1266 00:50:22,650 --> 00:50:20,589 skinwalker ranch it's been what he did 1267 00:50:24,450 --> 00:50:22,660 is from as far as I can tell he did own 1268 00:50:26,310 --> 00:50:24,460 the skinwalker ranch for many years 1269 00:50:28,410 --> 00:50:26,320 Bigelow might have finally be invested 1270 00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:28,420 himself from it for the last two or 1271 00:50:32,430 --> 00:50:30,130 three or something to that effect that 1272 00:50:34,530 --> 00:50:32,440 certainly they do seem to have done some 1273 00:50:36,450 --> 00:50:34,540 serious investigations there there were 1274 00:50:38,579 --> 00:50:36,460 some heavy hitters that were linked to 1275 00:50:40,890 --> 00:50:38,589 it such as Colonel John Alexander and 1276 00:50:42,810 --> 00:50:40,900 that I think is one instance so going 1277 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:42,820 into the 90s or you can kind of see how 1278 00:50:47,460 --> 00:50:45,970 these projects you know continued as I 1279 00:50:49,050 --> 00:50:47,470 mean with the skinwalker ranch well 1280 00:50:51,270 --> 00:50:49,060 there are some theories this might have 1281 00:50:53,579 --> 00:50:51,280 been a gateway into another dimension or 1282 00:50:55,380 --> 00:50:53,589 something to that effect it's also kind 1283 00:50:56,430 --> 00:50:55,390 of interesting where we're calling this 1284 00:50:58,950 --> 00:50:56,440 Bigelow 1285 00:51:01,470 --> 00:50:58,960 of course came out as a major backer 1286 00:51:03,630 --> 00:51:01,480 Russian same major as he did so some 1287 00:51:06,990 --> 00:51:03,640 support to Trump in the lead-up to the 1288 00:51:09,329 --> 00:51:07,000 2016 election as did Elon Musk who is 1289 00:51:11,599 --> 00:51:09,339 the other major backer for private 1290 00:51:14,070 --> 00:51:11,609 spaceflight and that type of thing so 1291 00:51:15,300 --> 00:51:14,080 yeah I mean I definitely think there's 1292 00:51:17,339 --> 00:51:15,310 some interesting developments that be 1293 00:51:19,440 --> 00:51:17,349 coming from that especially since in 1294 00:51:21,690 --> 00:51:19,450 general Trump you know seems like he's 1295 00:51:23,550 --> 00:51:21,700 very closed some of these private 1296 00:51:25,140 --> 00:51:23,560 intelligence networks certainly I mean 1297 00:51:26,940 --> 00:51:25,150 he's had a lot of advice from Erik 1298 00:51:29,160 --> 00:51:26,950 Prince the founder of black 1299 00:51:32,490 --> 00:51:29,170 there of course rumors circulating that 1300 00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:32,500 he was trying to get um I can't remember 1301 00:51:37,049 --> 00:51:34,930 the guys name but the CEO of Cerebus 1302 00:51:39,510 --> 00:51:37,059 which owns DynCorp to review the US 1303 00:51:42,059 --> 00:51:39,520 intelligence community so I definitely 1304 00:51:44,220 --> 00:51:42,069 think that a lot of it has continued in 1305 00:51:46,289 --> 00:51:44,230 the deep private and under Trump we may 1306 00:51:48,299 --> 00:51:46,299 we'll see this really going into 1307 00:51:50,420 --> 00:51:48,309 overdrive with some of the backers that 1308 00:51:53,490 --> 00:51:50,430 he had coming into the White House oh 1309 00:51:54,599 --> 00:51:53,500 yeah man and I did want to talk to you a 1310 00:51:57,089 --> 00:51:54,609 little bit about Trump because you've 1311 00:51:59,609 --> 00:51:57,099 written about him recently and the 1312 00:52:03,990 --> 00:51:59,619 back-and-forth going on in the current 1313 00:52:06,180 --> 00:52:04,000 political circus and so when it comes to 1314 00:52:07,799 --> 00:52:06,190 the idea of a division among the elite 1315 00:52:09,839 --> 00:52:07,809 you know it really has been a popular 1316 00:52:12,150 --> 00:52:09,849 thing this whole election cycle right up 1317 00:52:14,549 --> 00:52:12,160 to today we had so much alternative 1318 00:52:16,829 --> 00:52:14,559 media support for Trump that Alex Jones 1319 00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:16,839 and shows like red ice are in support of 1320 00:52:21,870 --> 00:52:18,970 the president which is totally backwards 1321 00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:21,880 and it's always been and I was happy to 1322 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:23,890 see Clinton defeated but I'm skeptical 1323 00:52:28,500 --> 00:52:25,930 about anyone that they quote-unquote 1324 00:52:31,079 --> 00:52:28,510 let's become president and that said the 1325 00:52:33,780 --> 00:52:31,089 nonstop media attacks and the constant 1326 00:52:35,789 --> 00:52:33,790 pressure has shown them picking apart 1327 00:52:38,250 --> 00:52:35,799 the administration to some degree and 1328 00:52:39,780 --> 00:52:38,260 now just a couple months in we got the 1329 00:52:42,270 --> 00:52:39,790 airstrikes in Syria 1330 00:52:44,370 --> 00:52:42,280 the Moab drop in Afghanistan it seems 1331 00:52:46,859 --> 00:52:44,380 like this let's stay home and put 1332 00:52:49,140 --> 00:52:46,869 America first attitude has flipped to 1333 00:52:51,299 --> 00:52:49,150 full-blown globalism what's going on 1334 00:52:53,849 --> 00:52:51,309 here are we dealing with real cooz and 1335 00:52:55,530 --> 00:52:53,859 counter-coup and infighting or is this 1336 00:52:57,839 --> 00:52:55,540 just another case of simulated 1337 00:53:00,299 --> 00:52:57,849 opposition well it's definitely 1338 00:53:04,049 --> 00:53:00,309 difficult to say at this point still I 1339 00:53:06,599 --> 00:53:04,059 think in my opinion the real cost of the 1340 00:53:08,789 --> 00:53:06,609 dispute over elements of the deep state 1341 00:53:11,579 --> 00:53:08,799 and what-have-you would trump really had 1342 00:53:14,460 --> 00:53:11,589 to deal with a question of theaters I 1343 00:53:17,010 --> 00:53:14,470 guess essentially the Hillary backers 1344 00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:17,020 seem to have preferred to continue the 1345 00:53:21,329 --> 00:53:19,690 pressure on Russia which has been 1346 00:53:23,789 --> 00:53:21,339 building obviously throughout Barack 1347 00:53:25,710 --> 00:53:23,799 Obama's administration whereas it seems 1348 00:53:27,750 --> 00:53:25,720 like some of the talks who backed Trump 1349 00:53:31,380 --> 00:53:27,760 were much more concerned with the rise 1350 00:53:32,700 --> 00:53:31,390 of China so kind of going in to present 1351 00:53:35,130 --> 00:53:32,710 events that are unfolding right now 1352 00:53:37,349 --> 00:53:35,140 initially Trump kind of surprised 1353 00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:37,359 everyone by launching these airstrikes 1354 00:53:42,210 --> 00:53:39,970 in Syria but conversely he did 1355 00:53:44,130 --> 00:53:42,220 literally at the same time he was having 1356 00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:44,140 dinner with the president of China and 1357 00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:46,960 ever since this particular incident 1358 00:53:51,900 --> 00:53:49,050 unfolded you've seen some major 1359 00:53:53,670 --> 00:53:51,910 reversals coming out of China of course 1360 00:53:55,500 --> 00:53:53,680 they've you know started to step up 1361 00:53:57,390 --> 00:53:55,510 pressure on North Korea but I mean also 1362 00:53:59,310 --> 00:53:57,400 they've attended Lee talked about doing 1363 00:54:01,470 --> 00:53:59,320 some big economic concessions to the 1364 00:54:03,540 --> 00:54:01,480 United States in terms of lifting 1365 00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:03,550 restrictions on the selling of US speed 1366 00:54:08,730 --> 00:54:05,890 they're trying to buy Morgana's products 1367 00:54:10,859 --> 00:54:08,740 and probably most interestingly opening 1368 00:54:12,630 --> 00:54:10,869 up their securities and insurance 1369 00:54:16,140 --> 00:54:12,640 companies to ownership by foreign 1370 00:54:17,550 --> 00:54:16,150 individuals so I definitely think 1371 00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:17,560 they're still kind of an ongoing dispute 1372 00:54:21,270 --> 00:54:19,450 on folding within you know these 1373 00:54:23,310 --> 00:54:21,280 different factions the deep state over 1374 00:54:25,140 --> 00:54:23,320 what poses the greater threat to Pax 1375 00:54:27,990 --> 00:54:25,150 Americana whether it's Russia whether 1376 00:54:31,500 --> 00:54:28,000 it's China certainly the Hillary backers 1377 00:54:33,540 --> 00:54:31,510 were in the Russia camp and that would 1378 00:54:36,089 --> 00:54:33,550 be kind of consistent with the kind of 1379 00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:36,099 historic eastern establishment who has 1380 00:54:41,180 --> 00:54:38,170 long been obsessed with Europe they kind 1381 00:54:43,950 --> 00:54:41,190 of consider it to be the backbone of 1382 00:54:45,810 --> 00:54:43,960 American global power whereas conversely 1383 00:54:47,609 --> 00:54:45,820 I think there are other groups that are 1384 00:54:50,220 --> 00:54:47,619 far more interested in Asia at this 1385 00:54:52,530 --> 00:54:50,230 point they largely see Europe as kind of 1386 00:54:56,130 --> 00:54:52,540 wasteland and the future basically 1387 00:54:57,390 --> 00:54:56,140 unfolding in the Far East which you know 1388 00:55:01,079 --> 00:54:57,400 with the rise of China's economy 1389 00:55:03,660 --> 00:55:01,089 probably isn't a bad assumption mm-hmm 1390 00:55:05,099 --> 00:55:03,670 right on I also wanted to talk to you 1391 00:55:08,430 --> 00:55:05,109 about Jared Kushner because you've 1392 00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:08,440 written about him and he does kind of 1393 00:55:13,770 --> 00:55:11,170 make this idea of coos and counter coos 1394 00:55:15,780 --> 00:55:13,780 seem like it's really one big family and 1395 00:55:18,210 --> 00:55:15,790 less about competing factions because he 1396 00:55:20,820 --> 00:55:18,220 is Trump's son-in-law he's considered a 1397 00:55:23,730 --> 00:55:20,830 major force behind the campaign he 1398 00:55:26,130 --> 00:55:23,740 bought 666 5th Avenue across from 1399 00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:26,140 Rockefeller Plaza his startup company 1400 00:55:32,460 --> 00:55:29,650 was funded by George Soros and you refer 1401 00:55:34,980 --> 00:55:32,470 to him as the chief liaison between the 1402 00:55:36,750 --> 00:55:34,990 Trump people and the Jewish elite I mean 1403 00:55:39,420 --> 00:55:36,760 what else can be said about him and his 1404 00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:39,430 role in this thing well yeah that really 1405 00:55:43,020 --> 00:55:41,290 seems to have been you know his major 1406 00:55:44,820 --> 00:55:43,030 purpose I mean I believe Kushner played 1407 00:55:46,650 --> 00:55:44,830 a big role in getting Trump some 1408 00:55:48,720 --> 00:55:46,660 financial backing for Sheldon Hales and 1409 00:55:51,630 --> 00:55:48,730 I believe his name is the you know 1410 00:55:53,220 --> 00:55:51,640 casino mogul and what-have-you so yeah 1411 00:55:55,410 --> 00:55:53,230 and I mean I think that probably 1412 00:55:57,810 --> 00:55:55,420 place into Trump's kind of scene 1413 00:56:00,420 --> 00:55:57,820 reversed course on Syria my 1414 00:56:02,340 --> 00:56:00,430 understanding is that you know Israel is 1415 00:56:04,140 --> 00:56:02,350 obsessed with overthrowing Iran's 1416 00:56:06,020 --> 00:56:04,150 current government and you know 1417 00:56:09,930 --> 00:56:06,030 obviously part of that campaign would be 1418 00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:09,940 stabilizing Syria so yeah I mean there's 1419 00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:12,010 kind of these regional influences that 1420 00:56:16,260 --> 00:56:13,570 are playing into that and then there may 1421 00:56:18,630 --> 00:56:16,270 even be a current divide now within the 1422 00:56:20,490 --> 00:56:18,640 National Security Council over that the 1423 00:56:23,609 --> 00:56:20,500 kind of perception seems to be the de de 1424 00:56:26,580 --> 00:56:23,619 girar McMaster is really pushing for the 1425 00:56:28,020 --> 00:56:26,590 escalation and puts I think somewhere 1426 00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:28,030 between fifty one hundred and fifty 1427 00:56:32,820 --> 00:56:30,090 thousand boots on the ground in Syria 1428 00:56:35,730 --> 00:56:32,830 versus James Madison Secretary of 1429 00:56:36,900 --> 00:56:35,740 Defense and Joseph Dunford I believe the 1430 00:56:39,810 --> 00:56:36,910 chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff 1431 00:56:42,720 --> 00:56:39,820 who in the past had been very reluctant 1432 00:56:44,040 --> 00:56:42,730 about escalating the situation in Syria 1433 00:56:45,599 --> 00:56:44,050 from comments they've made and a 1434 00:56:48,450 --> 00:56:45,609 reported to now be the ones who are 1435 00:56:51,930 --> 00:56:48,460 still very tentative about how far we 1436 00:56:54,090 --> 00:56:51,940 want to go in Syria so certainly I mean 1437 00:56:56,400 --> 00:56:54,100 there seems to be from what I can tell 1438 00:56:57,960 --> 00:56:56,410 is still annoying going dispute over you 1439 00:57:01,230 --> 00:56:57,970 know do we want to try to really push 1440 00:57:02,640 --> 00:57:01,240 things in Syria as far as they can go or 1441 00:57:05,580 --> 00:57:02,650 do we want to try to keep the pressure 1442 00:57:08,130 --> 00:57:05,590 on China or was and I mean certainly 1443 00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:08,140 with Trump's own particular nature I 1444 00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:09,970 could definitely see scenarios where you 1445 00:57:14,670 --> 00:57:12,130 could do another dramatic 180 at some 1446 00:57:16,830 --> 00:57:14,680 point to Steven Bannon for instance 1447 00:57:19,170 --> 00:57:16,840 seems to have been you know on the outs 1448 00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:19,180 and the administration but again which 1449 00:57:23,880 --> 00:57:22,090 way things are played out it could be in 1450 00:57:27,330 --> 00:57:23,890 a few months Kushner might be the one on 1451 00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:27,340 the outside looking in so good yeah I 1452 00:57:30,720 --> 00:57:29,050 guess we are in the middle of the story 1453 00:57:33,950 --> 00:57:30,730 so you can't draw too many conclusions 1454 00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:33,960 about it but you do bring up the idea of 1455 00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:37,810 Trump and his back-and-forth on who he's 1456 00:57:42,540 --> 00:57:40,690 taking his cues from and you bring up 1457 00:57:44,250 --> 00:57:42,550 the idea of a possible blackmail 1458 00:57:46,530 --> 00:57:44,260 situation which is something that's come 1459 00:57:48,660 --> 00:57:46,540 up before earlier you mentioned sexual 1460 00:57:51,120 --> 00:57:48,670 blackmail that's very much a theme today 1461 00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:51,130 pedophilia among the elite is a pretty 1462 00:57:55,740 --> 00:57:54,010 hot topic even in mainstream circles 1463 00:57:57,480 --> 00:57:55,750 even if they're just calling it fake 1464 00:57:59,010 --> 00:57:57,490 news but at least it's out there I mean 1465 00:58:01,050 --> 00:57:59,020 the terms are being talked about I think 1466 00:58:03,750 --> 00:58:01,060 that has an effect but what are your 1467 00:58:06,740 --> 00:58:03,760 thoughts on blackmail actually playing 1468 00:58:08,210 --> 00:58:06,750 into the strings that are 1469 00:58:10,580 --> 00:58:08,220 being pulled behind the Trump 1470 00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:10,590 administration well yeah I definitely 1471 00:58:15,590 --> 00:58:13,290 think it's been a key role and certainly 1472 00:58:18,410 --> 00:58:15,600 his rise to power I mean Eric Prince 1473 00:58:21,260 --> 00:58:18,420 came out in a shortly before the 1474 00:58:23,150 --> 00:58:21,270 election and essentially indicated that 1475 00:58:25,130 --> 00:58:23,160 the New York Police Department was on 1476 00:58:27,140 --> 00:58:25,140 the verge of prosecuting Anthony Weiner 1477 00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:27,150 on charges related to pedophilia and 1478 00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:29,490 Weiner of course was married to a key 1479 00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:31,890 Hillary aide that probably played a 1480 00:58:36,980 --> 00:58:34,290 factor in her you know ultimate loss of 1481 00:58:39,050 --> 00:58:36,990 the election and then more recently you 1482 00:58:41,510 --> 00:58:39,060 kind of have being mayor of Seattle who 1483 00:58:43,340 --> 00:58:41,520 was suddenly implicated in you know 1484 00:58:46,100 --> 00:58:43,350 molestation of several kids several 1485 00:58:47,870 --> 00:58:46,110 years ago who has been a major opponent 1486 00:58:50,510 --> 00:58:47,880 of Trump and his policies and 1487 00:58:52,220 --> 00:58:50,520 immigration but then again you know I 1488 00:58:54,350 --> 00:58:52,230 also think there's a possibility that 1489 00:58:54,830 --> 00:58:54,360 Trump himself might be implicated in 1490 00:58:57,020 --> 00:58:54,840 this 1491 00:59:00,800 --> 00:58:57,030 of course there's allegations that he 1492 00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:00,810 also took trips to Epstein Island where 1493 00:59:04,760 --> 00:59:02,490 I believe what the legal age of consent 1494 00:59:06,890 --> 00:59:04,770 was 12 or something to that effect 1495 00:59:08,420 --> 00:59:06,900 though Clinton of course was late to 1496 00:59:10,940 --> 00:59:08,430 this and that was a big issue in the 1497 00:59:12,650 --> 00:59:10,950 campaign so yeah I could definitely see 1498 00:59:14,660 --> 00:59:12,660 you know I mean somebody having 1499 00:59:17,440 --> 00:59:14,670 something on Trump as well certainly 1500 00:59:19,970 --> 00:59:17,450 Trump comes off as an individual who's 1501 00:59:22,870 --> 00:59:19,980 been engaged in a certain degree of 1502 00:59:25,460 --> 00:59:22,880 sexual decadence throughout his life so 1503 00:59:27,560 --> 00:59:25,470 yeah and then I mean of course you get 1504 00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:27,570 back into some of his women his sort of 1505 00:59:33,350 --> 00:59:29,850 deep statement or was most likely really 1506 00:59:35,780 --> 00:59:33,360 Kuhn who had started out as a attorney 1507 00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:35,790 for McCartney during the 1950's and 1508 00:59:40,190 --> 00:59:37,890 there have been allegations going around 1509 00:59:42,380 --> 00:59:40,200 for years that [\h__\h] was also involved in 1510 00:59:44,890 --> 00:59:42,390 running sexual blackmail rings possibly 1511 00:59:47,590 --> 00:59:44,900 involving children for CIA 1512 00:59:50,420 --> 00:59:47,600 so Trump might have been you know 1513 00:59:54,170 --> 00:59:50,430 initiated into this world going as far 1514 00:59:56,300 --> 00:59:54,180 back as possibly the 1970s well then 1515 00:59:58,580 --> 00:59:56,310 well we have covered a hell of a lot of 1516 01:00:01,370 --> 00:59:58,590 ground is there anything else on the 1517 01:00:03,380 --> 01:00:01,380 horizon or anything that you're seeing 1518 01:00:05,300 --> 01:00:03,390 or paying particular attention to down 1519 01:00:08,540 --> 01:00:05,310 the line that we should address before 1520 01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:08,550 we start wrapping it up really at this 1521 01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:10,650 point I'm just hoping we don't get into 1522 01:00:15,590 --> 01:00:12,690 a third world war on the gun you know 1523 01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:15,600 monks mmm amen 1524 01:00:19,670 --> 01:00:17,850 yeah it's it's definitely all we can do 1525 01:00:20,510 --> 01:00:19,680 is kind of sit on the sidelines and wait 1526 01:00:22,310 --> 01:00:20,520 and see what they 1527 01:00:23,690 --> 01:00:22,320 and store but I'm hoping so - yeah 1528 01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:23,700 there's no need for that 1529 01:00:28,430 --> 01:00:26,010 just although I know there's more going 1530 01:00:30,740 --> 01:00:28,440 on oh sorry to say but whenever there's 1531 01:00:33,290 --> 01:00:30,750 whispers of economic trouble you know 1532 01:00:36,230 --> 01:00:33,300 that a giant massive military conflict 1533 01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:36,240 is right around the corner oh yeah and I 1534 01:00:39,400 --> 01:00:38,010 mean well not just that - but I mean I 1535 01:00:42,260 --> 01:00:39,410 also just think the fact that 1536 01:00:45,020 --> 01:00:42,270 credibility in public institutions has 1537 01:00:46,910 --> 01:00:45,030 just collapsed so much not just in the 1538 01:00:49,100 --> 01:00:46,920 United States but in Europe and so many 1539 01:00:51,110 --> 01:00:49,110 other areas the world right now I mean 1540 01:00:53,330 --> 01:00:51,120 the public does not trust you know 1541 01:00:55,460 --> 01:00:53,340 politicians they don't trust the press 1542 01:00:58,910 --> 01:00:55,470 there's hardly anybody left that they do 1543 01:01:01,430 --> 01:00:58,920 trust so I think that's another kind of 1544 01:01:03,170 --> 01:01:01,440 driving factor for a major war with the 1545 01:01:05,180 --> 01:01:03,180 elite or the another factor that's 1546 01:01:08,090 --> 01:01:05,190 driving the elites towards a major war 1547 01:01:11,180 --> 01:01:08,100 right now is they need something that's 1548 01:01:12,740 --> 01:01:11,190 going to reestablish Authority in the 1549 01:01:14,690 --> 01:01:12,750 state or something to that effect 1550 01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:14,700 because I mean right now there's just so 1551 01:01:19,340 --> 01:01:17,250 much public disconnect with our 1552 01:01:22,220 --> 01:01:19,350 discontent with the way things are and I 1553 01:01:24,260 --> 01:01:22,230 think there is a realization that if it 1554 01:01:26,510 --> 01:01:24,270 continues in the current path you know 1555 01:01:28,220 --> 01:01:26,520 sooner or later somebody is going to get 1556 01:01:30,230 --> 01:01:28,230 elected or come to some kind of power 1557 01:01:32,180 --> 01:01:30,240 that's not going to be another Trump 1558 01:01:35,420 --> 01:01:32,190 that can be you know easily manipulated 1559 01:01:37,610 --> 01:01:35,430 by the powers that be so I definitely 1560 01:01:39,200 --> 01:01:37,620 think the push to war is also to try to 1561 01:01:41,510 --> 01:01:39,210 pretty empty you know some kind of 1562 01:01:44,030 --> 01:01:41,520 genuine political change that may occur 1563 01:01:45,830 --> 01:01:44,040 down the line so I mean certainly my 1564 01:01:47,780 --> 01:01:45,840 major hope is that we can avoid a major 1565 01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:47,790 war at this point so that we can get to 1566 01:01:53,120 --> 01:01:49,410 the possibility we're real chance of 1567 01:01:55,220 --> 01:01:53,130 change does present itself hmm very well 1568 01:01:57,350 --> 01:01:55,230 said man so yeah I'm right there with 1569 01:01:59,750 --> 01:01:57,360 you let's hope that doesn't happen let's 1570 01:02:02,900 --> 01:01:59,760 keep our guard up and keep our eyes open 1571 01:02:05,330 --> 01:02:02,910 for just this kind of manipulation but 1572 01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:05,340 that pretty much does it for us recluse 1573 01:02:09,470 --> 01:02:07,770 I do love the work you're doing I'm so 1574 01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:09,480 glad Chris Knowles turned me on to your 1575 01:02:14,150 --> 01:02:11,490 blog it's very much in the same vein as 1576 01:02:14,450 --> 01:02:14,160 his great stuff before I really cut you 1577 01:02:15,920 --> 01:02:14,460 loose 1578 01:02:17,600 --> 01:02:15,930 tell the people a little bit more about 1579 01:02:20,810 --> 01:02:17,610 it if they want to get more into these 1580 01:02:23,570 --> 01:02:20,820 things oh well like I said you can find 1581 01:02:29,660 --> 01:02:23,580 my website at our bodies of view com 1582 01:02:32,660 --> 01:02:29,670 that's V isup you biew com excuse me 1583 01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:32,670 logs com essentially yeah i chronicle a 1584 01:02:36,799 --> 01:02:34,410 lot of deep political 1585 01:02:39,349 --> 01:02:36,809 Treves a lot of you know arcane topics I 1586 01:02:41,420 --> 01:02:39,359 used to do some pop-culture oriented 1587 01:02:43,220 --> 01:02:41,430 things on music and movies and that type 1588 01:02:46,010 --> 01:02:43,230 of stuff but not as much in the last 1589 01:02:48,230 --> 01:02:46,020 year so yeah I guess if you've enjoyed 1590 01:02:50,210 --> 01:02:48,240 the webcast if you also enjoy some other 1591 01:02:52,370 --> 01:02:50,220 thing you see on the secret cylinder 1592 01:02:54,440 --> 01:02:52,380 ruins soup you may be interested in my 1593 01:02:56,359 --> 01:02:54,450 blog certainly I would consider mr. 1594 01:02:58,849 --> 01:02:56,369 Nola's and mr. white to the enormous 1595 01:03:00,410 --> 01:02:58,859 influences on my work I also actually 1596 01:03:02,630 --> 01:03:00,420 would like to take this moment to to 1597 01:03:04,819 --> 01:03:02,640 give a big thank you to Chris Nola's for 1598 01:03:05,599 --> 01:03:04,829 promoting my website among his readers 1599 01:03:07,789 --> 01:03:05,609 and what have you 1600 01:03:09,740 --> 01:03:07,799 obviously you know turning you on to my 1601 01:03:11,779 --> 01:03:09,750 website and what have you it definitely 1602 01:03:13,250 --> 01:03:11,789 means a lot to me I have a great degree 1603 01:03:15,319 --> 01:03:13,260 of respect for the work that Chris 1604 01:03:17,240 --> 01:03:15,329 Nola's has done over the last decade or 1605 01:03:19,130 --> 01:03:17,250 so and you know it's very gratifying 1606 01:03:22,430 --> 01:03:19,140 that he seems to enjoy the work that I'm 1607 01:03:25,089 --> 01:03:22,440 doing yeah I even saw Peter Levin to 1608 01:03:27,980 --> 01:03:25,099 himself commented on a couple of your 1609 01:03:31,460 --> 01:03:27,990 posts that involve his work that's up 1610 01:03:33,829 --> 01:03:31,470 something cool yeah yeah no I had some 1611 01:03:35,930 --> 01:03:33,839 contact lavinda I've had some contact 1612 01:03:37,579 --> 01:03:35,940 with HBO Borrelia usually I've talked to 1613 01:03:39,019 --> 01:03:37,589 el Borrelia and email exchanges and 1614 01:03:41,630 --> 01:03:39,029 what-have-you so that's definitely been 1615 01:03:43,279 --> 01:03:41,640 exciting to have some contact with some 1616 01:03:45,769 --> 01:03:43,289 of the researchers that really inspired 1617 01:03:46,670 --> 01:03:45,779 my work it's been very gratifying and 1618 01:03:50,329 --> 01:03:46,680 probably one of the most rewarding 1619 01:03:52,370 --> 01:03:50,339 aspects it's on the blog and then man I 1620 01:03:54,170 --> 01:03:52,380 hear yeah I feel like I'm talking to 1621 01:03:56,089 --> 01:03:54,180 people every week that I'm not qualified 1622 01:03:56,569 --> 01:03:56,099 to be talking to but it's a beautiful 1623 01:03:59,089 --> 01:03:56,579 thing 1624 01:04:01,339 --> 01:03:59,099 and right on I had a great time talking 1625 01:04:03,380 --> 01:04:01,349 to you thanks again keep fighting the 1626 01:04:06,890 --> 01:04:03,390 good fight my man thanks a lot for 1627 01:04:09,470 --> 01:04:06,900 having me one you got it and boom goes 1628 01:04:13,069 --> 01:04:09,480 the dynamite dear listeners Rekluse of 1629 01:04:14,839 --> 01:04:13,079 babylon drop in knowledge and I do have 1630 01:04:16,849 --> 01:04:14,849 to apologize for the audio quality a 1631 01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:16,859 little bit I know we had connection 1632 01:04:20,539 --> 01:04:18,210 problems with the internet that would 1633 01:04:22,039 --> 01:04:20,549 just screw up like one word out of every 1634 01:04:24,410 --> 01:04:22,049 other sentence and then it would go away 1635 01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:24,420 for a while and there are parts that I 1636 01:04:27,859 --> 01:04:26,130 had to stitch together to sound more 1637 01:04:29,569 --> 01:04:27,869 fluid and there are parts that sound 1638 01:04:32,539 --> 01:04:29,579 like bad edits but I actually didn't 1639 01:04:34,519 --> 01:04:32,549 touch anything so a little subpar on the 1640 01:04:36,319 --> 01:04:34,529 audio quality but when it's like that 1641 01:04:38,329 --> 01:04:36,329 it's hard to keep interrupting a 1642 01:04:40,400 --> 01:04:38,339 person's flow and I just tend to think 1643 01:04:41,900 --> 01:04:40,410 oh I'm going to fix it later and then I 1644 01:04:43,970 --> 01:04:41,910 go back and it bothers me more than I 1645 01:04:46,910 --> 01:04:43,980 thought it would but it is what it is 1646 01:04:48,230 --> 01:04:46,920 serenity now right recluse does know 1647 01:04:50,240 --> 01:04:48,240 what he's talking about though and 1648 01:04:52,100 --> 01:04:50,250 terms of content and mapping out all 1649 01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:52,110 these connections I feel like he's got 1650 01:04:55,910 --> 01:04:53,490 to have one of the most elaborate 1651 01:04:58,580 --> 01:04:55,920 detective show corkboards up in his head 1652 01:05:00,200 --> 01:04:58,590 it's pretty impressive and being a guy 1653 01:05:02,630 --> 01:05:00,210 who doesn't do many interviews 1654 01:05:04,760 --> 01:05:02,640 especially a lengthy one like these here 1655 01:05:07,880 --> 01:05:04,770 higher side chefs I think he did a great 1656 01:05:10,220 --> 01:05:07,890 job this really is just one of my 1657 01:05:12,650 --> 01:05:10,230 attempts to find some new voices that 1658 01:05:14,690 --> 01:05:12,660 still mesh with this nexus of the occult 1659 01:05:16,970 --> 01:05:14,700 and the deep state and I don't want to 1660 01:05:18,440 --> 01:05:16,980 just go over the same stories so I try 1661 01:05:20,330 --> 01:05:18,450 to find people who have looked at 1662 01:05:22,340 --> 01:05:20,340 different aspects or highlight different 1663 01:05:23,990 --> 01:05:22,350 details of that stuff that I like about 1664 01:05:26,810 --> 01:05:24,000 Gordon White and Chris Knowles 1665 01:05:30,110 --> 01:05:26,820 and yeah recluse was pretty committed to 1666 01:05:31,820 --> 01:05:30,120 Chris no less but I've always said 1667 01:05:34,430 --> 01:05:31,830 Knowles and I never really thought 1668 01:05:37,250 --> 01:05:34,440 anything about it but now he's got me 1669 01:05:39,230 --> 01:05:37,260 second-guessing myself but anyway it's 1670 01:05:41,330 --> 01:05:39,240 just one of my big curiosities is that 1671 01:05:43,730 --> 01:05:41,340 in the conspiracy world we hear the 1672 01:05:46,310 --> 01:05:43,740 buzzword Cabala we hear about old Jewish 1673 01:05:48,590 --> 01:05:46,320 magic and yes that is there but it's the 1674 01:05:50,540 --> 01:05:48,600 Bush family doing the skullenbones stuff 1675 01:05:52,520 --> 01:05:50,550 it's the Nazis who are the most open 1676 01:05:55,390 --> 01:05:52,530 about the occult and anyone alive 1677 01:05:57,260 --> 01:05:55,400 today's lifetime and it's German 1678 01:05:59,450 --> 01:05:57,270 petrochemical companies they're at the 1679 01:06:02,030 --> 01:05:59,460 heart of a lot of today's problems so I 1680 01:06:05,270 --> 01:06:02,040 don't know if someone was really going 1681 01:06:08,270 --> 01:06:05,280 to try and say that my show hides the 1682 01:06:10,100 --> 01:06:08,280 Jewish agenda I mean that might be fair 1683 01:06:12,920 --> 01:06:10,110 because it has been a long time since we 1684 01:06:14,930 --> 01:06:12,930 did a Jews run the world show mainly 1685 01:06:18,020 --> 01:06:14,940 just because I think that stuff is 1686 01:06:20,840 --> 01:06:18,030 outdated to a degree or maybe only 1687 01:06:23,270 --> 01:06:20,850 applies to banking circles not that it's 1688 01:06:25,220 --> 01:06:23,280 wrong but I think that people in that 1689 01:06:28,010 --> 01:06:25,230 camp have blinders on to other things 1690 01:06:31,040 --> 01:06:28,020 like this really easy to track largely 1691 01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:31,050 German Russian nationalist fascist 1692 01:06:36,680 --> 01:06:35,010 faction like Henry Ford for example who 1693 01:06:39,290 --> 01:06:36,690 worked heavily with the Rockefellers and 1694 01:06:41,180 --> 01:06:39,300 the oil barons who spawned the assembly 1695 01:06:43,760 --> 01:06:41,190 line and helped craft an education 1696 01:06:45,680 --> 01:06:43,770 system that reduced people to believing 1697 01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:45,690 that being a screw Turner is a 1698 01:06:50,420 --> 01:06:48,210 fulfilling life he wrote a book called 1699 01:06:52,250 --> 01:06:50,430 the International Jew and I bought it 1700 01:06:53,960 --> 01:06:52,260 because I want to understand this weird 1701 01:06:56,150 --> 01:06:53,970 element of the situation among the 1702 01:06:58,760 --> 01:06:56,160 elites and it's everything you might 1703 01:07:01,730 --> 01:06:58,770 expect how Jews use power Jewish 1704 01:07:04,250 --> 01:07:01,740 supremacy and cinema Jewish user 1705 01:07:07,160 --> 01:07:04,260 the G World Order perpetual victimhood 1706 01:07:09,770 --> 01:07:07,170 and I just find it interesting coming 1707 01:07:11,359 --> 01:07:09,780 from him because he's a real dick and I 1708 01:07:13,310 --> 01:07:11,369 also thought that when we say Jewish 1709 01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:13,320 elite that included families like 1710 01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:15,810 Rockefeller yet he seemed pretty cozy 1711 01:07:20,780 --> 01:07:18,330 with them and some say the highest elite 1712 01:07:22,820 --> 01:07:20,790 are just German Jews who use that 1713 01:07:23,690 --> 01:07:22,830 division the same way they use Democrats 1714 01:07:26,390 --> 01:07:23,700 and Republicans 1715 01:07:28,550 --> 01:07:26,400 honestly I guess I'm really just not 1716 01:07:30,830 --> 01:07:28,560 that good at I'm someone up and knowing 1717 01:07:33,200 --> 01:07:30,840 if they're Jewish unless we're talking 1718 01:07:36,380 --> 01:07:33,210 about like Larry David and Woody Allen 1719 01:07:38,510 --> 01:07:36,390 so I don't know but I do know that the 1720 01:07:41,690 --> 01:07:38,520 reason our food and medicine and 1721 01:07:43,790 --> 01:07:41,700 vaccines are all [\h__\h] is petrochemical 1722 01:07:45,980 --> 01:07:43,800 companies and that's not the eugenics 1723 01:07:48,320 --> 01:07:45,990 residue my friends as far as I can tell 1724 01:07:51,080 --> 01:07:48,330 but maybe we will do a show for the 1725 01:07:53,270 --> 01:07:51,090 other side before too long I want to be 1726 01:07:55,520 --> 01:07:53,280 balanced but I actually don't know the 1727 01:07:57,490 --> 01:07:55,530 best researcher to get on for the Jewish 1728 01:08:00,380 --> 01:07:57,500 agenda side anymore so you tell me 1729 01:08:02,240 --> 01:08:00,390 anyway I hope you like this one and I 1730 01:08:04,880 --> 01:08:02,250 hope it filled out a few more areas on 1731 01:08:07,310 --> 01:08:04,890 your deep state map I think Rekluse is 1732 01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:07,320 right about the distrust being so high 1733 01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:08,850 right now that they're going to want a 1734 01:08:13,190 --> 01:08:11,250 distraction event we've seen it before 1735 01:08:15,710 --> 01:08:13,200 and we recorded the show just before 1736 01:08:17,180 --> 01:08:15,720 Comey was fired from the FBI that's why 1737 01:08:19,370 --> 01:08:17,190 you didn't hear it mentioned but I'm 1738 01:08:21,050 --> 01:08:19,380 sure this saga also has the 1739 01:08:24,620 --> 01:08:21,060 administration looking for a bigger 1740 01:08:27,710 --> 01:08:24,630 tragedy than their shady operation so be 1741 01:08:30,860 --> 01:08:27,720 awake be ready you do not know the hour 1742 01:08:32,990 --> 01:08:30,870 when World War 3 is coming and if you 1743 01:08:35,180 --> 01:08:33,000 like the first hour here of course 1744 01:08:38,030 --> 01:08:35,190 there's always a second if you sign up 1745 01:08:40,340 --> 01:08:38,040 for THC plus it's $5 a month for five 1746 01:08:42,289 --> 01:08:40,350 extra hours and lifetime access to the 1747 01:08:45,019 --> 01:08:42,299 forum's there are three months six 1748 01:08:47,570 --> 01:08:45,029 months full-year options recurring 1749 01:08:50,510 --> 01:08:47,580 non-recurring check money order Bitcoin 1750 01:08:53,269 --> 01:08:50,520 whatever I want to make it easy so get 1751 01:08:54,769 --> 01:08:53,279 on the ride in this second hour we 1752 01:08:56,690 --> 01:08:54,779 talked about the impact of China's 1753 01:08:58,430 --> 01:08:56,700 decision to open up their securities and 1754 01:09:01,220 --> 01:08:58,440 insurance companies to foreign ownership 1755 01:09:03,289 --> 01:09:01,230 how Rekluse balances the positive 1756 01:09:05,090 --> 01:09:03,299 personal experiences with psychedelics 1757 01:09:07,039 --> 01:09:05,100 with the knowledge of deep state 1758 01:09:09,070 --> 01:09:07,049 connections around the psychedelic 1759 01:09:11,660 --> 01:09:09,080 movement and that the introspection 1760 01:09:14,059 --> 01:09:11,670 facilitated by these compounds probably 1761 01:09:15,559 --> 01:09:14,069 didn't line up all that well with deep 1762 01:09:17,419 --> 01:09:15,569 state agendas I really 1763 01:09:19,280 --> 01:09:17,429 like that part we talked about how 1764 01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:19,290 recluse takes issue with the trend of 1765 01:09:23,359 --> 01:09:21,449 conspiracy researchers focusing on the 1766 01:09:25,550 --> 01:09:23,369 distribution of India genes rather than 1767 01:09:28,280 --> 01:09:25,560 opioids considering how much more 1768 01:09:29,839 --> 01:09:28,290 damaging they are as these opioids are 1769 01:09:32,479 --> 01:09:29,849 the ones that are synthesized and pushed 1770 01:09:34,819 --> 01:09:32,489 by Big Pharma we got into the strange 1771 01:09:36,680 --> 01:09:34,829 history of events along the 33rd 1772 01:09:39,379 --> 01:09:36,690 parallel and how that relates to the 1773 01:09:42,229 --> 01:09:39,389 idea of a Faustian pact or the potential 1774 01:09:44,180 --> 01:09:42,239 for some type of spirit bargaining by 1775 01:09:46,339 --> 01:09:44,190 elements of the American machine the 1776 01:09:48,680 --> 01:09:46,349 true nature of the elite and entity 1777 01:09:51,019 --> 01:09:48,690 connection are they unconscious contact 1778 01:09:53,089 --> 01:09:51,029 or infected by a parasitic mind virus 1779 01:09:55,459 --> 01:09:53,099 why it's interesting that William 1780 01:09:57,530 --> 01:09:55,469 Shockley specifically would be chosen as 1781 01:09:59,569 --> 01:09:57,540 the inventor of the transistor if it was 1782 01:10:01,879 --> 01:09:59,579 in fact a ruse to hide a more occult 1783 01:10:03,709 --> 01:10:01,889 origin we talked about secret wars 1784 01:10:06,109 --> 01:10:03,719 vatican edition where we got into the 1785 01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:06,119 Jesuits and the Knights of Malta also 1786 01:10:09,770 --> 01:10:07,770 how Skull and Bones dominates the 1787 01:10:12,229 --> 01:10:09,780 military industrial complex and the 1788 01:10:14,149 --> 01:10:12,239 death of David Rockefeller and how that 1789 01:10:16,669 --> 01:10:14,159 might affect the power structure and the 1790 01:10:19,220 --> 01:10:16,679 plans of the elite other stuff as well 1791 01:10:21,950 --> 01:10:19,230 it's action-packed quite a bit of stuff 1792 01:10:25,250 --> 01:10:21,960 I enjoyed so big thanks again to recluse 1793 01:10:27,470 --> 01:10:25,260 I did like his point about LSD not being 1794 01:10:29,810 --> 01:10:27,480 that great for mind-control but maybe it 1795 01:10:32,120 --> 01:10:29,820 is good for other agendas like trying to 1796 01:10:33,709 --> 01:10:32,130 gain insight or math other realms I 1797 01:10:36,770 --> 01:10:33,719 think that's a great point 1798 01:10:43,180 --> 01:10:36,780 but anyway do check out his blog this up 1799 01:10:44,859 --> 01:10:43,190 view blog spot.com vis u P VI e wo 1800 01:10:47,330 --> 01:10:44,869 spot.com 1801 01:10:48,979 --> 01:10:47,340 just look in the show notes he's already 1802 01:10:51,050 --> 01:10:48,989 put up a new installment of his high 1803 01:10:52,850 --> 01:10:51,060 weirdness in the far right series I'm 1804 01:10:56,600 --> 01:10:52,860 sure that's a good read I already see 1805 01:10:58,700 --> 01:10:56,610 the Skull and Bones logo here and also I 1806 01:11:01,609 --> 01:10:58,710 haven't done this in a while but playing 1807 01:11:03,680 --> 01:11:01,619 us out today is a band called seven day 1808 01:11:06,229 --> 01:11:03,690 sleep because they asked if I could 1809 01:11:08,660 --> 01:11:06,239 close out a show with their song red 1810 01:11:10,370 --> 01:11:08,670 lipstick murders and I thought it was a 1811 01:11:12,169 --> 01:11:10,380 pretty great song so I'm happy to do 1812 01:11:14,209 --> 01:11:12,179 that I want two artists out there to 1813 01:11:16,729 --> 01:11:14,219 make it especially say like this crazy 1814 01:11:18,890 --> 01:11:16,739 show right but that does it for me today 1815 01:11:20,510 --> 01:11:18,900 I am getting out of here your move deep 1816 01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:20,520 state dimensional door openers 1817 01:11:24,290 --> 01:11:22,530 underground occult fascist factions of 1818 01:11:26,089 --> 01:11:24,300 the far right and the interdimensional 1819 01:11:31,210 --> 01:11:26,099 entities of the other world that you 1820 01:11:40,250 --> 01:11:34,960 seven days sleep they took away the 1821 01:11:45,920 --> 01:11:40,260 bridal fell to the Riverside is it all 1822 01:11:49,190 --> 01:11:45,930 my sister they burned a man it was done 1823 01:11:58,160 --> 01:11:53,750 sing his chapters dead be quick well 1824 01:11:59,110 --> 01:11:58,170 crave them up before drink them with my 1825 01:12:09,320 --> 01:11:59,120 red 1826 01:12:09,330 --> 01:12:14,080 [Music] 1827 01:12:20,180 --> 01:12:18,140 to kill 1828 01:12:22,950 --> 01:12:20,190 I can't stop 1829 01:12:35,590 --> 01:12:22,960 [Applause] 1830 01:12:35,600 --> 01:12:49,090 hey save my soul 1831 01:12:49,100 --> 01:12:53,790 [Music] 1832 01:12:53,800 --> 01:13:02,570 they from the bottom of the river nobody 1833 01:13:40,500 --> 01:13:12,370 [Music] 1834 01:13:43,330 --> 01:13:40,510 [Applause] 1835 01:13:49,580 --> 01:13:43,340 Wow 1836 01:13:49,590 --> 01:13:52,680 [Applause] 1837 01:13:54,050 --> 01:13:53,090 [Music] 1838 01:14:00,759 --> 01:13:54,060 [Applause] 1839 01:14:11,710 --> 01:14:02,840 Hey 1840 01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:17,420 [Music] 1841 01:14:34,790 --> 01:14:22,290 Oh 1842 01:15:01,830 --> 01:14:54,650 [Music]